After the new stadium......what next?

[skiathospurs]

The old meets the new.

Or what we once had,Legends,with at the time elite signings by any standard,Gazza,Ginola,Klinsman meeting our shiney new home,the "what will be" part of our future.I expect this story I am writing is mostly going to be fairly personal,my individual feelings and emotions around White Hart Lane,THFC as a club,Daniel Levy,the team,the new stadium (I still cant bare to not call it WHL) and my own circumstances.

All the best TV shows begin with "previously on......",well previously at WHL a little over 43 years ago,I first walked up the stairs in the Park Lane upper,through what I now know is a vomitory and for the first time in my life saw in real life what I had only seen on television,the pitch,the stadium,the fans,the team coming out in drips&drabs for a kick about (it wasnt even a warm up back then!!).A once in a lifetime moment of awe and wonder as a child,that you can never repeat.Except I am feeling pretty much the same about that little game on wednesday coming up.Kid at christmas is a cliche,but even at my age I cant help but keep wishing it was here now,that moment of first sight,the sound,feel of it all.So far I careless we are playing a match against crystal palace,I just want to be there,feel it,see it,the same as when I was 12 and nagged a non football,non spurs family friend to take me.

Truthfully,even 3 weeks ago I wasnt feeling so good about going home,the delays,poor communication,lack of signings,the gentrification through pricing of the fanbase,wembley,you name it,it gave me the hump.Levy had gone from genius in the euphoric days of May 2017,the ending of st Totteringsday mathematically against Arsenal at home to them and then soon after the beautifully handled Finale,to villan.Promises made and broken,ring fenced transfer budgets,a new season at our new home,the pricing,then the delay to september,then a delay,another delay then not so much announced delays but no clarity on when anything would happen.The malaise of more time at wembley not cheering many people up,the only brightness has been the team still pushing on regardless of injury,spending,stadium,drop off in support its fair to say?.The club went from hero to zero,in 18months,having risen to hero from zero the last few years after Redknapps flourish was too brief before AVB and Timmy and a return to the early ENIC years..

I remember leaving wembley in `91 after demolishing that lots double thinking "it will never get any better than this",strange because after cup finals,european finals I didnt have the same feeling.Obviously you didnt have to be mystic meg to see the dark clouds coming,bankrupcy,selling your and your country`s best player to keep the bank happy and that was before the court cases,corporatisation of the lane,carlos kickaball comments.In a different way I felt the same after the Finale,football would never be the same again,the ground I had lived through was gone.A mixture of dread and excitement.Honestly.If white hart lane was to become a soulless emirates V2.0,or london stadium,etihad,wembley (if you have been you know the difference to highbury,upton park,maine road,old wembley),its not a building or design its a feeling,different clients different atmosphere.Truly if that`s how it becomes then I wont pay the price,I will live with my memories and go non-league.But then the hope of a new dawn,a new lane,a renewed power to compete with anyone with signings,wages,somewhere the worlds best would want to come and play.Once again not because of a build,design but the feeling created inside.The same love as the Lane that extended to players from far away whom once embraced by it would be Spurs for life, rafa vdv,klinsman,ardiles,back as far in time as Alan Gilzean,.Which way will it go emirates.V.2 or white hart lane V.2.0 .Remember this is my own experience,thoughts,I want to stand,I want to sing more than I want a USB port,heated seat and rotisserie chicken,I simply want to be part of the whole thing not simply watching in comfort.I want to be and do what I can for the team on the day,and especially in England this is what makes it so damn watchable for television.I am not simply a fan,customer,consumer,I am part of the product,most supporters are or were,but football is losing sight of that,TV companies that write the cheques with their schedules,the football authorities devaluing competitions in favour of one almighty cup,the clubs and government with primitive legislation about standing,sipping a beer insight of the pitch,kick off times on holidays meaning no hope of getting home until 4am if you drive,so on and so on.......How much can the game take from the support,before the support turns away.

So far,everything seems to be amazing,"it feels like white hart lane"fans,ex-players and current players are saying,99.9% are squealing in joy like teenagers over a new boy band,all the images&comments look so positive,suddenly Daniel Levy is a hero again,and I cant wait to experience it all over again like 43years ago.It has been painful,the waiting,the demolishing of an old home especially hard to watch,the disappointment of the delays but already there is a feeling of great and goodness from the support about our new home,all the troubles blown away by one of or the best stadium in the world.

There is Part 2 coming when I gather my thoughts,about where do we go from here,how do we manage to not lose the excitement,feeling of now,which in hindsight Arsenal managed so badly.That isnt derby bias,they sat comfortably back,enjoyed the revenue and forgot about moving on in a world where city,chelsea and now liverpool have surged ahead..How we use a hugely increased revenue from the stadium to stay at the top and then push on is the key.Even before yesterdays test event, stadium concessions are X3 what the club forecast,the image above showing just how successful the new concourse areas are proving,not so much a lock in,some areas having lock-outs due to crowds in some areas.
If THFC is used to milk money for the owners then we will probably do what arsenal have done post emirates,try and ensure the revenue keeps flowing,but truth be told best way of securing that is a successful team.Best training facilities,best stadium,just one thing missing now Mr Chairman.

....................

 

[Don Diaz]

The old meets the new.

Or what we once had,Legends,with at the time elite signings by any standard,Gazza,Ginola,Klinsman meeting our shiney new home,the "what will be" part of our future.I expect this story I am writing is mostly going to be fairly personal,my individual feelings and emotions around White Hart Lane,THFC as a club,Daniel Levy,the team,the new stadium (I still cant bare to not call it WHL) and my own circumstances.

All the best TV shows begin with "previously on......",well previously at WHL a little over 43 years ago,I first walked up the stairs in the Park Lane upper,through what I now know is a vomitory and for the first time in my life saw in real life what I had only seen on television,the pitch,the stadium,the fans,the team coming out in drips&drabs for a kick about (it wasnt even a warm up back then!!).A once in a lifetime moment of awe and wonder as a child,that you can never repeat.Except I am feeling pretty much the same about that little game on wednesday coming up.Kid at christmas is a cliche,but even at my age I cant help but keep wishing it was here now,that moment of first sight,the sound,feel of it all.So far I careless we are playing a match against crystal palace,I just want to be there,feel it,see it,the same as when I was 12 and nagged a non football,non spurs family friend to take me.

Truthfully,even 3 weeks ago I wasnt feeling so good about going home,the delays,poor communication,lack of signings,the gentrification through pricing of the fanbase,wembley,you name it,it gave me the hump.Levy had gone from genius in the euphoric days of May 2017,the ending of st Totteringsday mathematically against Arsenal at home to them and then soon after the beautifully handled Finale,to villan.Promises made and broken,ring fenced transfer budgets,a new season at our new home,the pricing,then the delay to september,then a delay,another delay then not so much announced delays but no clarity on when anything would happen.The malaise of more time at wembley not cheering many people up,the only brightness has been the team still pushing on regardless of injury,spending,stadium,drop off in support its fair to say?.The club went from hero to zero,in 18months,having risen to hero from zero the last few years after Redknapps flourish was too brief before AVB and Timmy and a return to the early ENIC years..

I remember leaving wembley in `91 after demolishing that lots double thinking "it will never get any better than this",strange because after cup finals,european finals I didnt have the same feeling.Obviously you didnt have to be mystic meg to see the dark clouds coming,bankrupcy,selling your and your country`s best player to keep the bank happy and that was before the court cases,corporatisation of the lane,carlos kickaball comments.In a different way I felt the same after the Finale,football would never be the same again,the ground I had lived through was gone.A mixture of dread and excitement.Honestly.If white hart lane was to become a soulless emirates V2.0,or london stadium,etihad,wembley (if you have been you know the difference to highbury,upton park,maine road,old wembley),its not a building or design its a feeling,different clients different atmosphere.Truly if that`s how it becomes then I wont pay the price,I will live with my memories and go non-league.But then the hope of a new dawn,a new lane,a renewed power to compete with anyone with signings,wages,somewhere the worlds best would want to come and play.Once again not because of a build,design but the feeling created inside.The same love as the Lane that extended to players from far away whom once embraced by it would be Spurs for life, rafa vdv,klinsman,ardiles,back as far in time as Alan Gilzean,.Which way will it go emirates.V.2 or white hart lane V.2.0 .Remember this is my own experience,thoughts,I want to stand,I want to sing more than I want a USB port,heated seat and rotisserie chicken,I simply want to be part of the whole thing not simply watching in comfort.I want to be and do what I can for the team on the day,and especially in England this is what makes it so damn watchable for television.I am not simply a fan,customer,consumer,I am part of the product,most supporters are or were,but football is losing sight of that,TV companies that write the cheques with their schedules,the football authorities devaluing competitions in favour of one almighty cup,the clubs and government with primitive legislation about standing,sipping a beer insight of the pitch,kick off times on holidays meaning no hope of getting home until 4am if you drive,so on and so on.......How much can the game take from the support,before the support turns away.

So far,everything seems to be amazing,"it feels like white hart lane"fans,ex-players and current players are saying,99.9% are squealing in joy like teenagers over a new boy band,all the images&comments look so positive,suddenly Daniel Levy is a hero again,and I cant wait to experience it all over again like 43years ago.It has been painful,the waiting,the demolishing of an old home especially hard to watch,the disappointment of the delays but already there is a feeling of great and goodness from the support about our new home,all the troubles blown away by one of or the best stadium in the world.

There is Part 2 coming when I gather my thoughts,about where do we go from here,how do we manage to not lose the excitement,feeling of now,which in hindsight Arsenal managed so badly.That isnt derby bias,they sat comfortably back,enjoyed the revenue and forgot about moving on in a world where city,chelsea and now liverpool have surged ahead..How we use a hugely increased revenue from the stadium to stay at the top and then push on is the key.Even before yesterdays test event, stadium concessions are X3 what the club forecast,the image above showing just how successful the new concourse areas are proving,not so much a lock in,some areas having lock-outs dues to crowds in some areas.
If THFC is used to milk money for the owners then we will probably do what arsenal have done post emirates,try and ensure the revenue keeps flowing,but truth be told best way of securing that is a successful team.Best training facilities,best stadium,just one thing missing now Mr Chairman.

....................

Great read, I share some of your memories, your hopes and fears.

The trouble is for us, with Spurs tinted memories of great FA Cup days and European nights, is that everything has moved on, and at a great pace. Back then there was a far more level playing field in terms of revenues, players, and opportunity. Any one of about 10 teams could win the league, the FA Cup, remember Ipswich, Southampton, Aston Villa, Everton, Leeds, Nottingham Forest.....no-one even considered City and Chelsea. Money controls everything now, you simply buy success, it’s not rocket science.

Well as you suggest we have a world class training ground, stadium, manager and some players. But will it be enough to attract more, in the same way that Ossie and Ricky came, Gazza, Ginola, Klinsmann and others. You need to pay them £150k + these days.

The big fear, a fantastic stadium with 39,000 clients in it finishing 6th. Let’s all make sure that doesnt happen and we retain our class and values, whilst still being able to compete with the mega rich

 

[Dorset]

I really don't care if Spurs play on a council playing field or in a nice stadium. The only thing I like about the new stadium is that more fans will be able to see the team play - if they can afford it. Having a big shiney stadium don't not never ever win you no trophies and I suspect that any increased revenue will go into Levy and Joe's pockets - because they are cunts, which I believe I may have mentioned a few thousand times in recent years. Having a mega-stadium and not investing in the squad is just vanity and profit for the fat-cat owners, it's like one of them 5 grand handbags very dumb women buy or a hair transplant.

 

[skiathospurs]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ium-beacon-light-trojan-horse-gentrification/

 

[skiathospurs]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/03/sports/tottenham-hotspur-stadium.html

 

[Havocc]

https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2019/april/chairmans-message/

Although he has he flaws. I have never ever doubted this mans commitment to not only our club, but Tottenham in general

Quite possibly the best chairman in world football

 

[Dorset]

https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2019/april/chairmans-message/

Although he has he flaws. I have never ever doubted this mans commitment to not only our club, but Tottenham in general

Quite possibly the best chairman in world football

I have never doubted his commitment to himself and his money, quite possibly a chairman of a football club.

 

[skiathospurs]

I have never doubted his commitment to himself and his money, quite possibly a chairman of a football club.

He is back in the good books again this week,time will show if he realises he has enough dosh and treats it as a club,not a business.I mean for the who dont want to be purely punters.

 

[Don Diaz]

https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2019/april/chairmans-message/
Quite possibly the best chairman in world football

That's a very big statement. He has undoubtedly transformed the club during his tenure and like most successful leaders has also got lucky recently with the Harry Kane's/dele Alli's of this world turning up at the right time and Pochettino of course. The trouble is that in order to achieve all that he has undoubtedly made mistakes along the way. I respect what he has done and changed most peoples expectations now, which brings it's own issues. But Man City, Chelsea, Bournemouth, Bayern, Barcelona, PSG fans might all disgree about having the best chairman in world football?

 

[skiathospurs]

I will revisit this soon,but as I am travelling tonight and recovering still,my thoughts on what comes next will conclude from my experience last night and the financial stuff just being released today.So here is a handy link on that.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ce-world-record-profits-of1129m-despite-cost/

 

[Don Diaz]

A few years ago before plans for the new Stadium started to become a proper reality (who remembers BlueCrewLA?) I was cross that during the Sugar years, we got left behind in the investment race, and was worried at the time we would forever be 'a good Cup team' with little chance of ever really becoming a 'big' European team, as we were up until the 80's. Now through a combination of Levy, luck, Pochettino, Bale and Kane etc. We are as Sir Poch describes, ready for the next chapter.

Personally until 5-6 years ago where we are today was just a pipe dream, not just the stadium and the players and the manager and the style of football (at least last Season),it's the whole transition to properly big European club again. It has, for the most part also been done the right way, wiithout the American or Oil dollar or the Russian rouble. I think Sir Billy Nic would be proud and that should mean quite a lot too.

 

[skiathospurs]

A few years ago before plans for the new Stadium started to become a proper reality (who remembers BlueCrewLA?) I was cross that during the Sugar years, we got left behind in the investment race, and was worried at the time we would forever be 'a good Cup team' with little chance of ever really becoming a 'big' European team, as we were up until the 80's. Now through a combination of Levy, luck, Pochettino, Bale and Kane etc. We are as Sir Poch describes, ready for the next chapter.

Personally until 5-6 years ago where we are today was just a pipe dream, not just the stadium and the players and the manager and the style of football (at least last Season),it's the whole transition to properly big European club again. It has, for the most part also been done the right way, wiithout the American or Oil dollar or the Russian rouble. I think Sir Billy Nic would be proud and that should mean quite a lot too.

Being a smaller club aiming for cups or top 4 and CL money seems to be the way it has gone.I dont get why you cant be top 4 and chase the league or fa cup,you dont have to take undue risks playing inexperienced severly weakened sides with the money awash in the game now.There is balance between chasing the champions league money which is important in one way and trying to win domestic cups which are important to the match going fans.So far we havent balanced that at spurs yet and TBF neither have other most clubs.Just because the league cup earns very little there is a reason why it is still literally called an "honour|" added to your list when won.Finishing in the champions league qualifying places literally isnt an honour,its just more money.

 

[Don Diaz]

.Finishing in the champions league qualifying places literally isnt an honour,its just more money.

Yes you're right, but that is how things are judged these days and how the biggest clubs survive. I don't agree with it and the game has been skewed by money rather than trophies which is a nonsense, but you have to ask, do you give up your club on this basis and support Wycombe Wanderers (in my case) or keep paying the dollar. Football is a bastard on many levels. I love where we are now and mostly how we got there, as an experience for now. I don't know how long it will last, or how long I will be able to afford and like to support it.

 

[Don Diaz]

https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2019/april/chairmans-message/

Although he has he flaws. I have never ever doubted this mans commitment to not only our club, but Tottenham in general

Quite possibly the best chairman in world football

I have re-read this statement and overlooked the challenges and benefits to the local community. whilst it is obviously a sweetened up statement, it's an impressive commitment over a long period. As with all these things there are local businesses who will not have him on their Christmas card lists, but his resolve will likely benefit the club going forward. One of the biggest clubs in Europe? we'll see over the next 5-10 years I guess. I think Burkinshaw was riight all those years ago. But Football clubs these days aren't what they used to be.

 

[skiathospurs]

Ok here we go with some thoughts for the future,claiming to know the best financial pathway is like claiming to know if we are going to sign Rabiot,or if we will beat city on tuesday etc etc.No one truly knows how the worlds markets,cost of borrowing,exchange rates,value of investments and so on will effect things,but I can make a stab in the dark with my thoughts on THFC,revenue,spending as effects the team,a strategy,but like I said no one knows,not even Levy at this moment because things can change so rapidly.

So having seen first hand the stadium in all its magnificence,I will try and give an idea of one side of what we have built and that is in my mind no doubt the best stadium for increasing/capturing revenue on match days.Now that will be a good thing for us fans only if it is used to support the team as much as possible.If it is used for ENIC to quickly draw down borrowing (increasing their profit hugely if they sold),or to invest in an NFL venture such as a franchise,or buy more property close to the stadium to invest in hotels,or housing development,then we will be in Kroneke territory.Yes we have to pay back the loan,but like any mortgage you pay what is sensible off,and still have to buy things over the years too.No point buying that fine house and sitting on the floor because the £500 for a sofa immediatly went on paying off loan capital.

I have taken all the (quoted in italics) figures from here;
https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnati...ncial-report-matches-its-new-state-of-the-art

So the debt part;
No longer the invisible constraint on Spurs’ financials, the new stadium has opened with fanfare seven and a half months later than planned. Spurs have the good fortune of having at least six games in the new stadium to close out the season, but will soon begin shovelling money into debt repayment.
At the time of reporting, Spurs had taken £537m in financing for the stadium from a consortium of banks, drawing £445m of it. However, it should be noted after the reporting period, Spurs obtained a further £100m in financing, bringing the total debt to £637m, which is currently due to be paid in 2022.
Those are just factual figures so far,is there more to be borrowed yet?for sure we wont set out to pay £650m odd back in 3 years?,there will be other arrangements made?probably.

What gives me hope is seeing the scale of the operation,the way fans have received it especially after all the gnashing of teeth over delays and transfer spending,many fans had an axe to grind,but so far everyone is happy,especially Levy.

Spurs leadership have used the Emirates as a standard for revenue to be expected at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, which generates around £100m per year. But fans’ interest in spending money at stadium at the initial test events have smashed the clubs’ expectations.

The club can quite accurately forecast ticket revenue (aside from cup participation),but reports are the 6k fan familiarisation event in the south stand brought in as much revenue as projected for the whole stadium for a PL fixture.Take that in six thousand spent as much as they forecast for 62,000.Again reports from the U18s test event suggested revenue was X3 what was expected (30,000 attendance),comments around the legends game same,fans spending was hugely over forecasts.There is one figure banded about that before half time against Palace on weds,£800k was taken (that is only a £14 spend per head) ,did that include a £10 programme?was it just food&drink concessions?dont ask me. Same about merchandise in the shop I dont know if these figures are combined in these rumours with concessions or on top.But thats by the by,point is the stadium will earn much more than Levy expected/dreamed of.

Tottenham’s matchday income increased from £45m in 2016/17 to £71m in 2017/18

This was the first wembley season,bigger crowds but a poor CL and europa league campaign,what or how the deal with Wembley about concession spending was,god only knows.Did we take a %, or the full amount because of the rent?once again I dont know.Also ticketing revenue is included in this figure,so work out how much the avg 69k attendance paid for tickets,then merchandise sold,then concessions for food&drink divide by 30 odd games and you have a hell of a complicated set of figure to try&judge against the new stadium!!!

£381m of total revenue puts them on nearly exactly level terms with their bitter rivals Arsenal, whose revenue amounted to only £7m more than Spurs’ at £388m. Tottenham are also within 20% of their peers, Chelsea (£443m) and Liverpool (£455m); certainly a non-discernible gap, but exceedingly less cavernous than in years past. The Mancunian clubs remain firmly ahead of Spurs, with Manchester City raking in £500m in sketchily obtained revenue, and Manchester United collecting an obscene £590m in revenue

The club announced a post-tax profit of £113m it is the highest by a PL club.

So basically everything looks good eh?I am not going to get bogged down with figures,this post is long enough already,however shortly I will post more on how the club has made this increased match day revenue possible,with design and truly a new way of operating on match days.But before signing off on this particular post,I would like to remind everyone,that once before we heralded a new beginning for stadia.Just as a cautious foonote.When built at the time which was the first of a new breed of stands in the early 80s,when the team was really going places it didnt quite all work out did it for spurs&Scholar.The new west stand,late,over budget was a new begininng,the first with executive boxes (previously Chelsea`s new stand with restaurants etc but no boxes bankrupted the club "save the bridge",sold for a pound to Bates) and with us too,over stretched with the banks chasing the new standard of stadium turned into a financial disaster.I am not saying this is how it could or will go,but just a word to dampen overly enthusiastic dreaming!

Back then building a new stand was fairly simple,see what spurs& chelsea did and copy,improve,and within a year or so being first merely meant first to be overtaken.Now this is not so easy with a whole stadium,can the emirates,etihad,old trafford catch up with a minor patch to mirror Levy`s cunning plan?I think not,yes they can learn a bit,but bar tearing them down they cannot compete with an open passported stadium,with huge bars,food concessions everywhere,every level and fans in the paxton free to met up and share food&drink with friends in the park lane anywhere in the stadium,and stay after for hours,be in there early for hours.

And this is what I am going to talk about next post.Along with what this extra financial clout could mean,now that is the dreaming part!!

 

[skiathospurs]

A good time to read this.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...of-old-trafford-in-spotlight?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[Don Diaz]

Rugby Union now....What about Hockey? and cricket in the summer? If the community thing is genuine why are the club buying up all the businesses?

We are delighted to announce that we have agreed a five-year partnership with Saracens Rugby Club that will see them play their annual 'Big Game' Gallagher Premiership Rugby fixture at our new stadium from 2020. The reigning domestic league champions previously used Wembley Stadium and, more recently, London Stadium to stage this match, which has traditionally taken place during the March international football break.

This partnership marks a return to north London for Saracens for their annual showpiece home match and further enhances the roster of impressive events that will be staged at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, which includes a long-term agreement with the NFL to host regular season games.

Daniel Levy, Tottenham Hotspur Chairman, said: "This agreement with Saracens further reinforces our aspiration to deliver a world-class multi-use venue in our home of Tottenham. "To attract one of world rugby's biggest club sides will bring a new audience to the area, as well as help drive significant socio-economic benefits for businesses and local people, as we continue to underline our commitment to the regeneration of north Tottenham. "We look forward to welcoming Saracens and their fans to Tottenham and delivering world-class rugby matchday experiences, showcasing our new stadium and all the surrounding area has to offer.

"This is an exciting partnership and, alongside Premier League and NFL matches, it is one that continues to underline our desire to create a sports and entertainment destination that we believe can transform this area of London."

Nigel Wray, Chairman of Saracens, said: “As someone brought up at White Hart Lane, for me and Saracens it’s a really special opportunity for us to partner with our fellow north Londoners, with whom we share so many of our core values. “Tottenham Hotspur have shown themselves to be true innovators in the development of their new stadium and I know you will all share in my excitement at the news that we will make their ground the home of our showpiece fixture. “Not only this but they are, like us, a club who care massively about their community; who strive to create opportunities in their local area, and who have had such an impact on the young people they work with. The new Tottenham Hotspur Stadium will dramatically impact the whole area.

“Together with Spurs we have the opportunity to create something very special in north London. I really do look forward to seeing our partnership come to life!”

 

[skiathospurs]

https://ftballdna.com/2019/04/02/tottenham-a-class-of-their-own/

 

[Don Diaz]

https://ftballdna.com/2019/04/02/tottenham-a-class-of-their-own/

You read these things and are immediately torn (at least I am) between feeling angry about the poor relation context or marvelling at our consistent over achievement. How the fuck did Leicester win that title? Anyway, I guess (and it's not really my true feelings, because I secretly wish there was a cap on the super rich clubs to create a level playing field, where good coaching and academies were rewarded) you either have to join them (the Big 5) or step down. We're between two stools according to this article, trying to catch up. Next 3 years will tell. Big Stadium sponsor is the next piece in the jig saw? Along with debt financing. CL next year is hugely important. That Saints away result might prove to be a disaster in a few weeks time. lets hope not.

 

[skiathospurs]

You read these things and are immediately torn (at least I am) between feeling angry about the poor relation context or marvelling at our consistent over achievement. How the fuck did Leicester win that title? Anyway, I guess (and it's not really my true feelings, because I secretly wish there was a cap on the super rich clubs to create a level playing field, where good coaching and academies were rewarded) you either have to join them (the Big 5) or step down. We're between two stools according to this article, trying to catch up. Next 3 years will tell. Big Stadium sponsor is the next piece in the jig saw? Along with debt financing. CL next year is hugely important. That Saints away result might prove to be a disaster in a few weeks time. lets hope not.

I understand your "cap" point,but individual countries,or even federations imposing a spending cap unless its for all, the rules would be flaunted,I mean we have FFP,ethics commitees and yet still (mostly) middle-eastern oil money talks and fair play/ethics walks.Its a nice idea,works in rugby league where they only have a dozen clubs to police but we know its never going to happen.
Interestingly enough Leicester were financially doped to allow them promotion,takes the shine off the fairy tale somewhat.By that case how did fulham get relegated?£100m spent,such a small revenue making club could seriously be in trouble ala portsmouth if they flounder next year.Yes they can sell some talent,but like with leeds,once you have the fire sale,squad is bare and league 1 beckons.It really will take a club of historical importance to fold before the world wakes up,certainly faster than if city win the quadruple 3 years running.

In the long term TV money will dry up if the PL turns into serie A,scottish PL,bundesliga,ligue uh! with teams being champions for 7 or more consecutive seasons.Never again will nottingham forest rise with a manager and team,the best players from that side would have been cherry picked by the Big 5 long before they could win the league let alone european cup.And that is our position,if Bale&Modric were still with us,would we have won the league 2 out of the last 3 seasons?very possibly,but big money came and we still cant resist some sides buying our players.But live by the sword die by the kebab fork because we took Bale&modric from other clubs so there is no moral high ground,just levels.

I guess where this fits in in this thread is whether the stadium will allow us to become more hunter than hunted with more money coming in?That depends on the debt,keeping a level of success (CL football year in) and how much Enic take out as their reward for being smarter with money than us!!

 

[Don Diaz]

You make some good points, especially this:

Never again will nottingham forest rise with a manager and team,the best players from that side would have been cherry picked by the Big 5 long before they could win the league let alone european cup.And that is our position,if Bale&Modric were still with us,would we have won the league 2 out of the last 3 seasons?very possibly,but big money came and we still cant resist some sides buying our players.But live by the sword die by the kebab fork because we took Bale&modric from other clubs so there is no moral high ground,just levels.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that Carpe Diem is the order of the day and when I stop enjoying the experience of going to Spurs with my mates and having a few beers, and just see a big money making industry, I'll pack it in and spend my money on something else.

 

[Yid]

You make some good points, especially this:

I'm increasingly of the opinion that Carpe Diem is the order of the day and when I stop enjoying the experience of going to Spurs with my mates and having a few beers, and just see a big money making industry, I'll pack it in and spend my money on something else.

Crack and whores?

 

[Dorset]

Crack and whores?

Some things just go so well together - Fish 'n chips, Chas 'n Dave, Crack 'n whores . Things that don't go well together are WHL 'n silly septic football, WHL 'n rugby. I saw Bruno v Bugner at the Lane yonks and yonks ago, and it was just wrong, it made me feel unclean, nothing a pipe and a lady of questionable morals couldn't fix but it was just fucking wrong. I probably won't never ever see the new Lane, but that doesn't bother me in the slightest because I can remember the old Lane and that'll do for me.

 

[skiathospurs]

Some things just go so well together - Fish 'n chips, Chas 'n Dave, Crack 'n whores . Things that don't go well together are WHL 'n silly septic football, WHL 'n rugby. I saw Bruno v Bugner at the Lane yonks and yonks ago, and it was just wrong, it made me feel unclean, nothing a pipe and a lady of questionable morals couldn't fix but it was just fucking wrong. I probably won't never ever see the new Lane, but that doesn't bother me in the slightest because I can remember the old Lane and that'll do for me.

fry ups and baked beans,pizza and anchovies,,soy sauce and mash potato,gravy and ice cream......
But enough on Mr Ire`s diet

 

[skiathospurs]

So perhaps this is all my fault,this shopping mall stadium idea,or perhaps 10,000 other hardy souls who also answered the survey 4 or so years back on the new stadium.I was brutally honest,I answered a lot of questions "never,nothing" and filled in a lot of additional comments giving the club both barrels.No one had to be a genius to see the problems with how football stadium offerings were presented to fans.
And I cant even find an image of the ridiculous crisp&pop carts from the shelfside for a decade or more,if you saw them you know how truly naff what was on offer was,but this image is bad enough.

Its not just having decent bars,food,toilets etc the whole problem and I specifically wrote this in the survey was,it was like going to an airport departure gate,once you`re in,you`re in,cant share time with friends elsewhere so we all stayed on the high road in bars,kebab shops,chick-king,burger vans until the last minute and were all separated in the north,south east or west stand or upper/lower levels until match end and back outside in the same establishments.Forget the 65m long bar,the indian/chinese,grill,chicken,italian,fish&chips food places,craft brewery,michelin star chef restaurants,more than 60 bars/food outlets,this open passported stadium is the genius in allowing fans to be there longer.Quite ridiculous that in the last 30 years all these business geniuses never figured it out before.This is what I said earlier in the thread,is what other stadiums cannot just quickly fix,you can stick more bars in,make them bigger,upgrade the food and toilets but in old trafford how do you allow access all areas from how the stadium was constructed way back,even a ground built 10 years ago like the emirates.

I followed my old routine last week,pub,food,more pub,another pub and 6.45pm thought oh shit better go in,it will be chaos 62,000 people 1st time trying to get in.Crossed the road,walked up some stairs had my card scanned,went through a detector thingy,put my card on a turnstile,and I was inside 4 mins after leaving the pub otherside of the road.Before you could eat a burger,smoke a cigarette and read the programme waiting in a queue to get to the turnstile.

If you have only seen footage,images,read squealing little schoolgirls like me on here,honestly,believe the hype with regards the possibilities for eating drinking,and having some atmosphere inside the stadium.It is a money magnet,and as i said its all my fault because I told them how to do it!!How quickly can others catch up?well everton&chelsea,milan,real must be erasing all plans and starting from scratch if they havent taken notice of the inside of NWHL already.As for stamford bridge,anfield,old trafford no way they can incorporate this new design without a rebuild,I doubt even more modern grounds like wembley,emirates,etihad can achieve this totally,all levels all stands,and like the marketplace,just one area inside,they cant build an area for 3,500 drinkers/happy eaters easily.But its all new so whether it carries on in the same vein this time next year?too early to say its a complete cultural shift,but in 2 years time when financial results come out,a lot of big clubs will be scrambling hard to catch up&quickly.

And I wont even mention the retractable pitch,boxing,NFL,kick&cuddle,concerts,conferences (2nd largest conference centre in london you`ll never sing that),largest club shop in europe (you`ll never sing oh fuck off you get it).So the point is nice pitch,nice stadium what you see on your match day on TV,but behind that Levy has built a money making machine.Now why has he done that,and there are a few answers here.

As its kick off in the city match any minute,I will leave it there as a teaser,because I am sure views on what Levy does with all this money about to roll in may vary!!

To be continued..........

 

[Rev John Ripsher]

Great post Colin. Summed up brilliantly.

 

[skiathospurs]

Kerrrrrrrrrrrching......

 

[Glenjamin]

So perhaps this is all my fault,this shopping mall stadium idea,or perhaps 10,000 other hardy souls who also answered the survey 4 or so years back on the new stadium.I was brutally honest,I answered a lot of questions "never,nothing" and filled in a lot of additional comments giving the club both barrels.No one had to be a genius to see the problems with how football stadium offerings were presented to fans.
And I cant even find an image of the ridiculous crisp&pop carts from the shelfside for a decade or more,if you saw them you know how truly naff what was on offer was,but this image is bad enough.

Its not just having decent bars,food,toilets etc the whole problem and I specifically wrote this in the survey was,it was like going to an airport departure gate,once you`re in,you`re in,cant share time with friends elsewhere so we all stayed on the high road in bars,kebab shops,chick-king,burger vans until the last minute and were all separated in the north,south east or west stand or upper/lower levels until match end and back outside in the same establishments.Forget the 65m long bar,the indian/chinese,grill,chicken,italian,fish&chips food places,craft brewery,michelin star chef restaurants,more than 60 bars/food outlets,this open passported stadium is the genius in allowing fans to be there longer.Quite ridiculous that in the last 30 years all these business geniuses never figured it out before.This is what I said earlier in the thread,is what other stadiums cannot just quickly fix,you can stick more bars in,make them bigger,upgrade the food and toilets but in old trafford how do you allow access all areas from how the stadium was constructed way back,even a ground built 10 years ago like the emirates.

I followed my old routine last week,pub,food,more pub,another pub and 6.45pm thought oh shit better go in,it will be chaos 62,000 people 1st time trying to get in.Crossed the road,walked up some stairs had my card scanned,went through a detector thingy,put my card on a turnstile,and I was inside 4 mins after leaving the pub otherside of the road.Before you could eat a burger,smoke a cigarette and read the programme waiting in a queue to get to the turnstile.

If you have only seen footage,images,read squealing little schoolgirls like me on here,honestly,believe the hype with regards the possibilities for eating drinking,and having some atmosphere inside the stadium.It is a money magnet,and as i said its all my fault because I told them how to do it!!How quickly can others catch up?well everton&chelsea,milan,real must be erasing all plans and starting from scratch if they havent taken notice of the inside of NWHL already.As for stamford bridge,anfield,old trafford no way they can incorporate this new design without a rebuild,I doubt even more modern grounds like wembley,emirates,etihad can achieve this totally,all levels all stands,and like the marketplace,just one area inside,they cant build an area for 3,500 drinkers/happy eaters easily.But its all new so whether it carries on in the same vein this time next year?too early to say its a complete cultural shift,but in 2 years time when financial results come out,a lot of big clubs will be scrambling hard to catch up&quickly.

And I wont even mention the retractable pitch,boxing,NFL,kick&cuddle,concerts,conferences (2nd largest conference centre in london you`ll never sing that),largest club shop in europe (you`ll never sing oh fuck off you get it).So the point is nice pitch,nice stadium what you see on your match day on TV,but behind that Levy has built a money making machine.Now why has he done that,and there are a few answers here.

As its kick off in the city match any minute,I will leave it there as a teaser,because I am sure views on what Levy does with all this money about to roll in may vary!!

To be continued..........

Excellent post. On our open stadium point I think it's one of the things that has came along from our NFL crossover. Loads of NFL stadiums are opened up to allow folk to walk about as they please. It's great to have. Allows people to spread out a bit and use what ever facilities are needed. It's a great money maker. I think upto now football teams have been scared of the thought of a free for all in open areas, but it's not really a problem when it's all one sides support. Only issue u cannot get away from is the half time bedlam. Something you don't really get in the NFL with people flowing in and out through the game. Think this will ease as the staff get quicker. Silly things were happening at the Palace game. Ran out of cheese and wouldn't serve without. Miss timed chips but didn't have an option for burger only. Over the coming weeks things will smooth out.

Main issue I noticed was the lack of bins.. What's that all about. Was wading through Plastics cups end of half time. I thought it was people being messy but it took me from the giant bar to 3rd floor to find a bin for my burger carton thing.

 

[Don Diaz]

I'm going to have to disagree, at least for the moment. last night having enjoyed a few pints with other members of this parish outside the ground, in comfort, quick and easy service, good access to a variety of food, we went in about 7.15pm for the 8.00pm kick-off. Access to the Market place food and Goal line bar was closed (too packed - substantiating your point of course) so we went to the Shelf bar. 20 mins later (substantiating your point),got a couple of pints from cans, Amstel had run out, now for food........up on Level two at the Tap In bars, all sold out, everything (subst........)
So the conclusion for me after 4 visits, is eat and drink outside, go in 10 minutes before kick off, have a piss, because the toilets are decent lol, and be ready for kick off. Simples.

ps. Of course by the middle of next season things may have calmed down a bit and also we haven't had a day game yet.

 

[skiathospurs]

I'm going to have to disagree, at least for the moment. last night having enjoyed a few pints with other members of this parish outside the ground, in comfort, quick and easy service, good access to a variety of food, we went in about 7.15pm for the 8.00pm kick-off. Access to the Market place food and Goal line bar was closed (too packed - substantiating your point of course) so we went to the Shelf bar. 20 mins later (substantiating your point),got a couple of pints from cans, Amstel had run out, now for food........up on Level two at the Tap In bars, all sold out, everything (subst........)
So the conclusion for me after 4 visits, is eat and drink outside, go in 10 minutes before kick off, have a piss, because the toilets are decent lol, and be ready for kick off. Simples.

ps. Of course by the middle of next season things may have calmed down a bit and also we haven't had a day game yet.

There is talk of an area in the north stand still to be fitted out,that the club are now thinking about adding another goal line bar V2.1 . Clearly this has taken off more than the club anticipated,but over crowding,selling out will drop the numbers back,or maybe once the novelty wears off it will anyway.

At away games,I always thought wow these couple of thousand spending like maniacs,the singing, if only a club could tap the home support the same way.I bet some grounds the away fans are a significant % of food&drink sold,because they are in earlier and drink more.I will still be more of an outside eating drinking fella I think especially now stadium access is so damn quick,4 mins from brown eagle to seat,thats quicker than from the bar under the south stand!!