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    Cheating goes unpunished

    Discussion in 'General Football' started by Dorset, Oct 23, 2016.

    1. Dorset

      Dorset The Voice Of Reason Founding Member

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      Watching the dippers game last night I saw Mane deliberately try and win a penalty and probabaly a red card for the Baggy defender by deliberately hooking his leg in between the defender's legs, it is hard to describe, but it was so devious and so obviously deliberate that the ref just waved play on. There was no punishment for Mane and the only possible outcome would have been a free kick, this is not right. If a player is trying to cheat their way to a red card and penalty then that should be the punishment if they are captured.

      Punishment must fit the crime, Mane went on to score the first dipper goal, play a big part in the 2nd and probably be their MOTM when he should have been off the pitch. It is worthwhile trying to cheat a penalty when cheaters know they will either win the spot kick or get away with the crime.

      It is as fucked up as cunts who drive without insurance being fined less than the cost of insurance. Drunk thugs who abuse plod and waste the time of 8 officers, ambulance and hospital staff, transport costs and the expense of being kept overnight in a police cell - they then get fined less than the cost of a night out. Fucked that is. The true cost of banging up a drunk brave cunt must be at least 2 or 3 grand, that should be the minimum fine.
       
    2. Liam

      Liam Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      Didn't see this particular game so can't comment on the incidents involved in it but I agree that diving/conning the ref should be punished more often. If you're about to run past the last man and he goes to tackle you and then you take a dive to win a free kick and try to get him sent off but get caught cheating by the ref then the cheater should get the red as that's what he's trying to get the ref to give the other player. If players started getting sent off for diving they'd soon stop it...
       
    3. Havocc

      Havocc Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      They need to make 'simulation' a red card offence with a 1 match ban. Clubs can appeal, but this will be extended to 2 games.

      It needs to be treated as seriously as possible.

      The other alternative is have a review board the re-watches each game...but that would be impossible
       
    4. LakewoodSpur

      LakewoodSpur Member Founding Member

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      If the FA would only insist the officials be as stringent with the remaining laws as they insist them to be with the substitution law everything would be cleared up in a heartbeat. To wit, as evidence I offer the following from a recent Premier League match:

      "May I go on now?"

      "No! You must wait until your teammate is completely off the pitch."

      "But he's strapped onto a gurney."

      "He must be completely off the pitch before you may enter the pitch."

      "This is ridiculous. He's got medics all over him."

      "Be patient. I know you may think I'm being a bit anal about it all, but as the Fourth Official it's my job and I will do it to the best of my ability. After all, where would this sport be without the proper application of the Laws of the Game?"

      "Okay, now?"

      "No! Stop trying to gain an advantage! The wheels of the gurney must be completely over the entire line."

      "But we've high-fived already."

      "Wait...wait..."

      "Now what?"

      "I've got to hold up the Hublot sign."

      "The what?"

      "The Hublot sign. I've got to show the numbers of who's coming off and who's coming on. Turn around so I can see your number. Oh, shit...what was the number of the gurney rider? You know, putting in the correct numbers is more difficult than it looks. You have to get them in the right order and also in the right color; which is why we get special training from the FA. Okay, let's see, ummmm, which one is the red number and which one is the green? No, that's not it. Ummm...okay, now I think I've got it."

      "But surely Hublot is not in the Laws of the Game."

      "Don't be a smart-ass with me or you'll get booked. Listen, they've paid big money to have their sign show up on TV and for everyone in the stadium to see it. A substitution is not official until Hublot shows it is. And if you step across the line before I show the Hublot to one-and-all, you'll be sent off."
       
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    5. J.spurs

      J.spurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      I thought they already did that?
       
    6. Havocc

      Havocc Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      Only if they have a reason to. For example, perhaps the tv camera picked something up
       
    7. J.spurs

      J.spurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      Yeah, but if I'm not mistaken, the referee performances are reviewed each week by a committee (can't remember the name of it). Point is, it wouldn't be that time intensive if done by committee. Wouldn't be a bad job either, though you'd have to watch Mourinho and Pulis teams each week...
       
    8. skiathospurs

      skiathospurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      Perhaps one answer is the referee to view the match afterwards and say he see`s Arter`s or Luiz`s challenge is not as he first thought,then he can ask for his decsion to be reviewed by a panel.If refs can made to feel that its not an admission of failure to say that in a split second he didnt see absolutely everything,thats impossible for a human,its impossible for Howard Webb sitting in a truck full of monitors and slo-mo replays,but justice would be better served if this ridiculous he got a yellow ref saw it & it cant be upped to a red, or a yellow card for simulation (for example)when clearly shown it was a foul on replay,why can the card not be rescinded?you can with red cards,and frivolous appeals could as now have penalties stiffened.

      And then this offside rule,i have long thought with all this 1st phase,seeking an advantage,active....its just interpretation to a degree.So everyone offside in the penalty area during play is offside,make defending a legitimate tactic again,anyone goalside in the area is already in play IMO whether they move to the ball,jump over it or whatever,any keeper will be basing positioning,his next move also on the threat of people capable of getting in a scoring position,so make it easy for lino`s refs,in the box offside unless a dumbass defender turns and passes it to you!!.
       
    9. skiathospurs

      skiathospurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      [QUOTE="skiathospurs, post: 3771,
      And then this offside rule,i have long thought with all this 1st phase,seeking an advantage,active....its just interpretation to a degree.So everyone offside in the penalty area during play is offside,make defending a legitimate tactic again,anyone goalside in the area is already in play IMO whether they move to the ball,jump over it or whatever,any keeper will be basing positioning,his next move also on the threat of people capable of getting in a scoring position,so make it easy for lino`s refs,in the box offside unless a dumbass defender turns and passes it to you!!.[/QUOTE]
      That goal today the perfect example of why I am right !!!:(
       
    10. Dorset

      Dorset The Voice Of Reason Founding Member

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      That goal today the perfect example of why I am right !!!:([/QUOTE]
      You are right. Of course that goal should have been disallowed, how many Scummy McScumfaces have to be offside before it is offside?
       
    11. skiathospurs

      skiathospurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      You are right. Of course that goal should have been disallowed, how many Scummy McScumfaces have to be offside before it is offside?[/QUOTE]

      Howard webb read out the exact laws of the current offside rule and technically they werent offside which is fucking ridiculous,now if wimmer had left it for them to score they would have been offside,which is absolutly fucking ridiculous,or maybe battenburg would have allowed the goal scored by the offside players that wimmer allowed to score cos he knew they were offside but didnt cos he was doing his job which is absolutely as clear as the current offside fucking law.
       
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    12. skiathospurs

      skiathospurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    13. Ted the Yid

      Ted the Yid Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      I hate the offside rule. a few years back we got lucky with the stupid "interfering with play" rule. Adebayor in and offside position went to strike the ball but dummied, sending the keeper the wrong way, as he didn't touch or affected the line of site of the goalie, it stood.

      I can't think of any comparable sport where times are own too such interpretation.
       
    14. Thfcire

      Thfcire Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      Fucking offside plain a simple just because the window licker at the back post doesn't touch it doesn't matter if he's not there wimmer doesn't head the ball
       
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    15. Dorset

      Dorset The Voice Of Reason Founding Member

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      Last night's City vs Burnley game gave us a classic example of unpunished cheating. That cheating little cunt Sterling threw himself to the ground without being touched by Heaton, in fact he was on his way to the floor before the Burnley keeper was anywhere near him. He was trying to win a penalty and get the keeper sent off and his punishment was fuck all, in fact City scored from this play!

      What the fucking fuck?????

      In my simple mind, the punishment should always fit the crime, in fact there should be a deterrent factor so the punishment should be at least double the crime, so Sterling goes off, the clown keeper Bravo also goes off, because that's what the little cunt was trying to achieve against the opposition and Burnley get 2 penalties. Yeah, that's more like it. Probably never going to happen in the real world, but Mason should have awarded a free kick to Burnley and red carded Sterling - he can't do that under the present rules I believe, it would have to be a yellow card, but the goal should not have been allowed.

      There IS a new stupid rule that if a player cheats and succeeds in getting another player sent off through diving or simulation, if an appeal finds that cheating was involved then the red card is reversed and the cheater gets banned, but that does not apply until after the game so any points advantage gained is not rectified.
       
    16. skiathospurs

      skiathospurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      Ok it was funny cos it was the pikeys,but seriously phil jones have a word with yourself you fucking noncy,cheating pansyarsed cunt.
       
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    17. conor1

      conor1 Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      Feigning injury, diving and acting to get players sent off are the biggest cancers in the game. There are times when I despair about the actions of some of todays players, it totally sickens the life out of me at times. Just imagine what Graham Roberts et al would have made of Sterlings effort yesterday. Don't get me wrong, we've had players who have been guilty of it, none more so than Bale.
      I despise it when I see it happening. Man the fuck up is what they need to do.
       
    18. Yid

      Yid Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      Did I see John Terry's get reminded...? Gutted.
       
    19. Don Diaz

      Don Diaz Zero tolerance of Numpty's Founding Member

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      Dele can be a bit naughty at times....folly of youth and all that....gamesmanship...I don't like either tbh
       
    20. conor1

      conor1 Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      It's the way the game has gone I suppose over the years mate. We're certainly not whiter than white, we've had our fair share of players down the years who would dive around, Bale and more lately as you point out Dele.
      I look at Wanyama and Dembele,, midfielders, in the thick of things getting wired in and not going over too easily. Maybe its the way they are built, I don't know. I hate to see the diving but as we've said, its part of the game now.
       
    21. Don Diaz

      Don Diaz Zero tolerance of Numpty's Founding Member

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      Yeah but that's no excuse, I'd prefer it if we didn't lower ourselves to the lowest common denominator, players get reputations easily....much more difficult to lose them.
       
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    22. skiathospurs

      skiathospurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38650163
      The Football Association is looking at introducing retrospective bans to English football for players who dive or feign injury.

      Officials will go on a fact-finding trip to Scotland, where retrospective bans are already used.

      In England, players are currently only given retrospective bans for incidents of violent conduct.

      It is understood a rule change would require agreement from all football governing bodies in England.

      Burnley boss Sean Dyche believes diving would be eradicated from football "in six months" with retrospective bans.

      According to a report in Tuesday's Times newspaper, senior figures at the FA are keen to press ahead with the move.

      Dyche's comments come after two recent incidents in Premier League matches.

      Robert Snodgrass apologised for going down without contact to earn a penalty for Hull against Crystal Palace, while Dele Alli won a debated spot-kick in Tottenham's 5-0 win over Swansea.

      At the start of the current season, Hearts' Jamie Walker was given a retrospective two-match ban for diving to win a penalty against Celtic in the Scottish Premiership.

      The Scottish FA found him in breach of disciplinary rule 201 as the "simulation caused a match official to make an incorrect decision". The player contested the charge, but the compliance officer's verdict was upheld.

      Under current Football Association rules in England, players who pretend to have been fouled should receive a caution for simulation, which comes under the category of unsporting behaviour, if the incident is spotted by the match officials.

      However, this can only occur during matches at the moment.
      The question of how to deal with players who dive or cheat has long troubled English football.

      The law which allows retrospective punishment in Scotland is being examined closely by FA chiefs.

      But any changes in England would require agreement from the game's various stakeholders. That means the Professional Footballers' Association, League Managers Association, English Football League and Premier League would all need to reach a consensus.

      Concerns over player's cheating is on Fifa's mind too.

      Marco van Basten, the former Netherlands striker who is the world governing body's chief technical officer, told the BBC last month it is discussing rule changes to increase "honesty" within football.

      That could include a rugby style regulation that would allow only the captain to speak with the referee.
       
    23. Dorset

      Dorset The Voice Of Reason Founding Member

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      Burnley boss Sean Dyche believes diving would be eradicated from football "in six months" with retrospective bans.

      It would be eradicated next weekend if they took points away from the team that 'Peter the cheater' played for.
       
    24. Dorset

      Dorset The Voice Of Reason Founding Member

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      That big fat twonk who used to be England manager said that the ref should have stopped the game when the cheating cunt Shloop wriggled his cheating arse back onto the pitch when he got cramp. Bollix fat bloke, total bollix, unpunished cheating again.
       
    25. skiathospurs

      skiathospurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39031282
      Barcelona player Neymar and his club will stand trial on corruption charges over his transfer from Brazilian team Santos, after losing a final appeal.

      The case relates to a complaint from Brazilian investment group DIS, which owned 40% of Neymar's transfer rights.

      It claims it received less money than it was entitled to when Neymar joined Barca from Santos for £49m in 2013.

      Santos, Neymar's mother and a company run by the 25-year-old footballer's parents will also face charges.

      "Santos FC, Barcelona FC, Neymar, his mother Nadine Goncalves and N&N, the family company, have lost their appeals to have charges of fraud and corruption dropped," the Spanish High Court said in a statement.

      They cannot appeal against the court's decision.

      Prosecutors are seeking a two-year prison sentence and a fine of nearly £8m for Neymar.

      However, even if the Brazil international were found guilty he would be unlikely to go to jail. Under the Spanish legal system, prison terms of under two years are typically suspended.

      Prosecutors are also seeking a fine of about £7.2m for Barcelona and £5.6m for Santos.

      Barca thought they had brought the affair to a close when a judge archived the case in June, but Spain's public prosecutor successfully overturned the ruling in September, allowing the case to proceed.

      Neymar's Barcelona team-mate Lionel Messi was sentenced to 21 months in prison for tax fraud in July of last year. He has appealed against the sentence.
       
    26. skiathospurs

      skiathospurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      Put down the phone and change the thread title......

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39962886

      Diving bans: Football Association approves retrospective action


      [​IMG]
      Middlesbrough's Gaston Ramirez was shown a yellow card for simulation at Bournemouth - before picking up a second and being sent off


      Players who dive in English football will face bans from next season under new Football Association regulations.

      Under the new rules, passed by the governing body at its annual general meeting on Thursday, a panel will review footage from the weekend each Monday looking for cases of simulation.

      Any player unanimously found guilty of diving would be given a suspension.

      The FA also announced it has passed reforms it proposed in March, following criticism over the way it is run.
      How will the new bans work?
      The FA defines the new offence for which players will be punished as "successful deception of a match official".

      The panel will consist of one former match official, one ex-manager and one ex-player.

      Only incidents that result in a penalty, a red card, or a yellow card that leads to a dismissal - either the first or second of two yellow cards - will be punished.

      The FA says it will act "where there is clear and overwhelming evidence to suggest a match official has been deceived by an act of simulation, and as a direct result, the offending player's team has been awarded a penalty and/or an opposing player has been dismissed".

      The announcement follows what the FA describes as "a period of consultation with stakeholders over the past few months".

      The rule change also required approval from the Premier League, the EFL and the Professional Footballers' Association.

      Speaking in December, Burnley manager Sean Dyche said he thought diving would be eradicated from football "in six months" if retrospective bans were introduced.

      Such bans have been in place in Scottish football since 2011.

      What happens in Scotland?
      BBC Scotland's Richard Wilson:

      The Scottish Football Association compliance officer - Tony McGlennan - reviews incidents in matches and determines whether or not notices of complaint should be raised.

      If a player is deemed to have dived during a game and the match officials did not recognise that at the time, the player will be issued with a disciplinary notice.

      The player can then either acknowledge guilt and accept the punishment offered by the compliance officer, or appeal.

      If it is the latter, a hearing is convened with an independent three-man panel - including people from legal and football backgrounds - who consider the case made by the compliance officer and the player before making a ruling.

      The reforms - key points
      In December, five ex-FA bosses asked the government to intervene and change an organisation they described as being held back by "elderly white men".

      Sports Minister Tracey Crouch had said the FA could lose £30m-£40m of public funding if it did not modernise.

      In March, the FA announced proposed reforms to:

      • Establish three positions on the FA board reserved for female members by 2018;
      • Reduce the size of the board to 10 members;
      • Add 11 new members to the FA Council so it "better reflects the inclusive and diverse nature of English football";
      • Limit board membership to three periods of three years;
      • Introduce term limits for FA Council membership.
      These were passed after a vote by shareholders at Thursday's annual general meeting, having already been approved by the FA Council in April.
       
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    27. Dorset

      Dorset The Voice Of Reason Founding Member

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      Bollocks, total pussy arsed bollocks, what about fucking Costa who dives 20 times per game? Most of the time him and the other cheats do not 'earn' a penalty or get the other player booked so they don't get banned because although they tried to win an advantage by cheating but didn't get away with it? That's like not nicking a thief who smashes in your door with the intention of nicking your best stuff, but doesn't steal anything because you stick a 12 bore in his face. Bollocks, ban the cunts EVERY time they do it and double the ban each time, that would stop diving in about 5 minutes.
       
    28. skiathospurs

      skiathospurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      I agree,but its a start.What will they do with yellow cards received for diving when on review they were fouled?Or blatantly appealing for things knowingly false.Appeal for a corner you know isnt and you score from it,any punishment?There is a lot still to do,this respect the Ref or get a card,disappeared pretty quickly,back to where we started IMO,and probably the same with this media catching change.Its either video review for all or for none,its a nonsense wrong yellow cards cannot be rescinded upon review,yet red cards can.Its going to be hugely subjective,being unbiased as possible what would a review make of the wembley penalty to Chelsea when Moses went over?and when someone gets away with one and doesnt concede a penalty is that not as unjust.?
       
    29. Yid

      Yid Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      I don't like it.....but big sam was right.

      If we're gonna give retrospective bans, you may as well review it imediately and deal with it there and then.

      I don't want it but it's gonna happen
       
    30. skiathospurs

      skiathospurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      As this is the generic moan about laws etc hows about this flange of ideas?
      http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40311889
      Football reforms: Scrapping 45-minute half to be debated at Ifab

      [​IMG]
      Under one of the suggested new rule changes, Xabi Alonso's goal in the 2005 Champions League final would not be allowed - as it was scored from a penalty rebound
      A proposal to scrap 45-minute halves is to be looked at by football's lawmakers to deter time-wasting.

      Instead, there could be two periods of 30 minutes with the clock stopped whenever the ball goes out of play.

      Lawmaking body the International Football Association Board (Ifab) says matches only see about 60 minutes of "effective playing time" out of 90.

      The idea is one of several put forward in a new strategy document designed to address football's "negativities".

      Another proposal would see players not being allowed to follow up and score if a penalty is saved - if the spot-kick "is not successful", play would stop and a goal-kick awarded.

      Other ideas include a stadium clock linked to a referee's watch and a new rule allowing players to effectively pass to themselves or dribble the ball when taking a free-kick.

      Read the full strategy document here

      Where have these proposals come from?
      The ideas have been put forward to Ifab by stakeholders in the game to tackle "on-field issues" and form part of what it calls its "Play Fair strategy", which has three aims of:

      • improving player behaviour and increasing respect
      • increasing playing time
      • increasing fairness and attractiveness
      Part of the problem the new document highlights is that a 90-minute match has fewer than 60 minutes of playing time because of stoppages and time-wasting.

      Which plans need no law changes?
      The document has put forward a number of radical ideas for discussion, but suggests some proposals can be implemented immediately without the need for law changes.

      Most of these apply to trying to combat time-wasting. The document says match officials should be stricter on the rule which allows keepers to hold the ball for six seconds and be more stringent when calculating additional time.

      Additionally, it suggests match officials stop their watch:

      • from a penalty being awarded to the spot-kick being taken
      • from a goal being scored until the match resumes from the kick-off
      • from asking an injured player if he requires treatment to play restarting
      • from the referee showing a yellow or red card to play resuming
      • from the signal of a substitution to play restarting
      • from a referee starting to pace a free-kick to when it is taken
      Which plans are ready for testing?
      Some of the proposals are already being tested. The idea of only allowing captains to speak to referees - to prevent match officials being mobbed - will be trialled at this summer's Confederations Cup, which starts on Saturday.

      Another proposal involves changing the order of kick-taking in penalty shoot-outs, known as 'ABBA'. It is similar to a tie-break in tennis, with team A taking the first kick, then team B taking two, then team A taking two. That is a change from the traditional 'team A, team B, team A, team B' pattern.

      New suggestions also include players who are being substituted leaving at the closest part of the touchline to them instead of at the halfway line.

      Which ideas are up for discussion?
      This is where it gets interesting. One of the proposals would allow being able to dribble straight from a free-kick to "encourage attacking play as the player who is fouled can stop the ball and then immediately continue their dribble/attacking move". Other measures include:

      • passing to yourself at a free-kick, corner and goal-kick
      • a stadium clock which stops and starts along with the referee's watch
      • allowing the goal-kick to be taken even if the ball is moving
      • a goal-kick being taken on the same side that the ball went out on
      • a "clearer and more consistent definition" of handball
      • a player who scores a goal or stops a goal with his hands gets a red card
      • a keeper who handles a backpass or throw-in from a team-mate concedes a penalty
      • the referee can award a goal if a player stops a goal being scored by handling on or close to the goal-line
      • referees can only blow for half-time or full-time when the ball goes out of play
      • a penalty kick is either scored or missed/saved and players cannot follow up to score to stop encroachment into the penalty area
      Who has come up with these proposals?
      Ifab is made up of Fifa and the four British home football associations - of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - and is responsible for making the final decision on law changes.

      Former English referee David Elleray is Ifab's technical director and has overseen the document.

      "Referees, players, coaches and fans all agree that improving player behaviour and respect for all participants and especially match officials, increasing playing time and the game's fairness and attractiveness must be football's main priority," he said.

      The next stage would involve the ideas being discussed at various meetings before decisions are taken on whether to develop them further or discard them.
       

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