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Do we have to win well?

Dorset

Dorset

The Voice Of Reason
Founding Member
Saint Bill said we do.

“It’s no use just winning, we’ve got to win well.”

There's a lot of chatter on here at the moment about how some cunts are happy with us playing total garbage and scraping wins or draws and how those cunts are happy with that as long as we win.

OK, sorry that was unfair, but you wouldn't have expected anything else from me would you? Personally I think it matters bigly how well we play and the ends do not justify the means. If I was going to accept that we were going to serve up 85 minutes of dross with the occasional counter-attacking goal every match, game after game of watching the opponents practising passing while we hoofed the ball up the park at every opportunity then i don't think I would bother anymore, I could just read the results the next day.

If you have a different (wrong) opinion and think it doesn't matter how we win, then you can just reply to this thread and I can scoff at you - or you can scoff at me, it is a forum innit?
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
The answer to the question is - that we should at least try.
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
The thing that does it for me is the large dose of hypocracy as well. We used to delight in saying how boring Mourinho Chelsea teams were and 1-0 to George Graham's Arsenal............god it was awful when he was our manager. A hoof up to Sheringham for a nod on to Rebrov. now some people are celebrating it?
 
skiathospurs

skiathospurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
"about just winning",just for fucking once in the last 30 years could achieve that?
Then we could go to places like huddersfield,villa park,burnley and sing "champions of england,you`ll never sing that"
like those clueless crisp eating midlanders.

I am that guitarist on the crossroads,cos I just one more time want to fucking celebrate something.And if selling my soul has to happen for you guys to enjoy the moment too,well fucking hail satan......
 
Yid

Yid

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
I watch and played football for entertainment...

Defending for 85 mins is not a good watch IMO...

I want to watch great football and I'd love to win something doing it...

What Mourinhio does is a valid and viable tactic to win more matches than you loose and I appreciate the use of it in certain circumstances...

There are other tactics that can yield results and I want to see what they can do...
 
Havocc

Havocc

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
He also said:

"If you don't win anything, you have had a bad season." (http://www.zen156211.zen.co.uk/quotes.htm)

So perhaps "win well" actually means to play the game in a way to win you a trophy. Which IMO, is what Jose is trying to do.
 
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Dorset

Dorset

The Voice Of Reason
Founding Member
He also said:

"If you don't win anything, you have had a bad season." (http://www.zen156211.zen.co.uk/quotes.htm)

So perhaps "win well" actually means to play the game in a way to win you a trophy. Which IMO, is what Jose is trying to do.
“There’s no use being satisfied when things are done wrongly. I want perfection.”

“The public can’t be kidded. They know what they want to see, what is good and what is bad and what is just average. At least I believe they do.”

“We must always consider our supporters, for without them there would be no professional football. It would be better to have more fans watching football the way they like it played, rather than have a few fans watching football the way we would like it played.”

"He never let us forget that we were out there to entertain the public." - Dave Mackay

"Bill eventually became Mr Tottenham Hotspur, and produced such a dazzling team at White Hart Lane that they won the double and played the game in a way that was an object lesson to everybody."
- Brian Clough

"He was a great man and a true gentleman. Bill had time for everyone -not just the players but the backroom staff and the supporters. He was a great ambassador for Tottenham Hotspur and for football."- Ralph Coates

"Jose Mourinho is a total cunt who doesn't give a toss about how the game is played or the fans, the only thing he cares about is results, win bad, win ugly, win lucky" Me
 
Chavhater01

Chavhater01

Player in Training.
The thing that does it for me is the large dose of hypocracy as well. We used to delight in saying how boring Mourinho Chelsea teams were and 1-0 to George Graham's Arsenal............god it was awful when he was our manager. A hoof up to Sheringham for a nod on to Rebrov. now some people are celebrating it?
For me it's not really about celebrating it, it's about the fact we have a proven winner who's won trophies everywhere he's gone and the hope that that gives me that he can do the same with us, he's here and there's fuck all we can do about it, so i might as well embrace it, otherwise the negativity will just breed contempt and the players will potentially feel that through social media, then the press jump all over it, even more so than they are now.

If you're a player and your working your nuts off having to be in the most part, unnaturally defensively minded, in the hope you might get some silverware, and it's working but the media and your own fans are spouting out negative energy, then i'm sure that'll start playing on their minds. Suddenly you've got a bit of a viral strain of bitterness running through the team and another season goes by without a trophy and that sucks for players like Harry, Hugo, Sonny, Eric,Toby etc.

We played some of the best football i've ever seen in the 38 years of being a Spurs fan under Poch but ultimately it counted for nothing because we won fuck all. You all talk about the boring football but in the most part we were complete garbage to watch under Poch over his last 6-9 months, lots of possession but sideways and backwards, we were sterile, listless, passive, there was no fight or energy. We were having 60% possession and having 4/5 shots a match, getting tanked 3-0 to Brighton, from memory the Liverpool game at Anfield last season under Poch, we had just as little possession as we did on Wednesday, similarly the City game we drew 2-2 at the beginning of last season we scored with our only 2 shots in the match much like this season.

Jose's got the team back fighting and there's a togetherness in the process and if the players are happy to go along with it, so am i, as long as we remain competitive and are winning games. I have no doubt there'll be games that we'll dominate this season, so i'm fairly hopeful we'll serve up enough decent football to keep the balance.

If results start dropping off and we start going on a winless run of 4-5 games, then i might start to get concerned, which is why our next few games are crucial. No fan wants their team playing anti football but if it brings some silverware this season then i'll take that all day long. I'll kneel on the other side of Satan's throne with you @skiathospurs!!

What really would make us better to watch is finding someone to replace Sissoko, he's detrimental to our play when we have the ball, i don't think he needs to be playing against the lesser teams. I do appreciate the guy though.
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
For me it's not really about celebrating it, it's about the fact we have a proven winner who's won trophies everywhere he's gone and the hope that that gives me that he can do the same with us, he's here and there's fuck all we can do about it, so i might as well embrace it, otherwise the negativity will just breed contempt and the players will potentially feel that through social media, then the press jump all over it, even more so than they are now.

If you're a player and your working your nuts off having to be in the most part, unnaturally defensively minded, in the hope you might get some silverware, and it's working but the media and your own fans are spouting out negative energy, then i'm sure that'll start playing on their minds. Suddenly you've got a bit of a viral strain of bitterness running through the team and another season goes by without a trophy and that sucks for players like Harry, Hugo, Sonny, Eric,Toby etc.

We played some of the best football i've ever seen in the 38 years of being a Spurs fan under Poch but ultimately it counted for nothing because we won fuck all. You all talk about the boring football but in the most part we were complete garbage to watch under Poch over his last 6-9 months, lots of possession but sideways and backwards, we were sterile, listless, passive, there was no fight or energy. We were having 60% possession and having 4/5 shots a match, getting tanked 3-0 to Brighton, from memory the Liverpool game at Anfield last season under Poch, we had just as little possession as we did on Wednesday, similarly the City game we drew 2-2 at the beginning of last season we scored with our only 2 shots in the match much like this season.

Jose's got the team back fighting and there's a togetherness in the process and if the players are happy to go along with it, so am i, as long as we remain competitive and are winning games. I have no doubt there'll be games that we'll dominate this season, so i'm fairly hopeful we'll serve up enough decent football to keep the balance.

If results start dropping off and we start going on a winless run of 4-5 games, then i might start to get concerned, which is why our next few games are crucial. No fan wants their team playing anti football but if it brings some silverware this season then i'll take that all day long. I'll kneel on the other side of Satan's throne with you @skiathospurs!!

What really would make us better to watch is finding someone to replace Sissoko, he's detrimental to our play when we have the ball, i don't think he needs to be playing against the lesser teams. I do appreciate the guy though.
Fair enough. it’s a shame about Sissoko but his lack of quality stood out against Liverpool.
 
Dorset

Dorset

The Voice Of Reason
Founding Member
Decent article if you can look passed your hatred.

No. Just whingeing and bollocks. It's not just about possession and stats. How about what we do when we do manage a bit of possession? Give it straight back or boot the fucker up the other end of the park and hope it goes somewhere near Harry. This cunt plays a percentage game and that sometimes works over the course of a season, it relies on other sides being shite and will not work if the top teams all start playing to their full potential. If that happens then the fans have suffered 38 games of total shite football and there is fuck all in the trophy cabinet. If folks are happy to be Chavs 2.0, something everyone whinged like fuckers about when they won the CL, then that's something they will have to answer for when they die and Saint Bill asks them if they accepted total dross football from his team - and he will send them straight down to the burney place.
 
Dorset

Dorset

The Voice Of Reason
Founding Member
"I work for my club, I work for my players. I try to give happiness to the people that love my club where I work" What a lying cunt - he should have worked for the Brexit campaign or the government.
 
Thfcire

Thfcire

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
He has a Chelsea picture in his office ..the end
 
Style And Glory

Style And Glory

Player in Training.
For me it's not really about celebrating it, it's about the fact we have a proven winner who's won trophies everywhere he's gone and the hope that that gives me that he can do the same with us, he's here and there's fuck all we can do about it, so i might as well embrace it, otherwise the negativity will just breed contempt and the players will potentially feel that through social media, then the press jump all over it, even more so than they are now.

If you're a player and your working your nuts off having to be in the most part, unnaturally defensively minded, in the hope you might get some silverware, and it's working but the media and your own fans are spouting out negative energy, then i'm sure that'll start playing on their minds. Suddenly you've got a bit of a viral strain of bitterness running through the team and another season goes by without a trophy and that sucks for players like Harry, Hugo, Sonny, Eric,Toby etc.

We played some of the best football i've ever seen in the 38 years of being a Spurs fan under Poch but ultimately it counted for nothing because we won fuck all. You all talk about the boring football but in the most part we were complete garbage to watch under Poch over his last 6-9 months, lots of possession but sideways and backwards, we were sterile, listless, passive, there was no fight or energy. We were having 60% possession and having 4/5 shots a match, getting tanked 3-0 to Brighton, from memory the Liverpool game at Anfield last season under Poch, we had just as little possession as we did on Wednesday, similarly the City game we drew 2-2 at the beginning of last season we scored with our only 2 shots in the match much like this season.

Jose's got the team back fighting and there's a togetherness in the process and if the players are happy to go along with it, so am i, as long as we remain competitive and are winning games. I have no doubt there'll be games that we'll dominate this season, so i'm fairly hopeful we'll serve up enough decent football to keep the balance.

If results start dropping off and we start going on a winless run of 4-5 games, then i might start to get concerned, which is why our next few games are crucial. No fan wants their team playing anti football but if it brings some silverware this season then i'll take that all day long. I'll kneel on the other side of Satan's throne with you @skiathospurs!!

What really would make us better to watch is finding someone to replace Sissoko, he's detrimental to our play when we have the ball, i don't think he needs to be playing against the lesser teams. I do appreciate the guy though.
Very good post Chavy. I agree with plenty of it.

One of the proudest moments for me was when Greece, against all odds, won the Euros. They didn't do it with flair but with a cohesiveness that was quite admirable. Otto Rehhagel was an experienced coach. Being quite the tactician & disciplinarian, he envisioned a path to glory. Got the players to pull together & play a certain way as they were much shorter on talent than most of the other countries.

My point being, they mostly played defensively & on the counter, mainly out of necessity. They won & no one can take that away from the players, staff, citizens & supporters. They are Euro Champions. It will always be there. The same can be said of Jose's Spurs if they win. I'll take it. But we have far more talent than that Greece team. Furthermore, I believe that as the team evolves, so will the play. I expect it to become more expansive.

FWIW, even with all that firepower Jose had at Real Madrid, he still predominantly played a counter attack. But they did score a record 121 goals & had a goal difference of +89.
 
skiathospurs

skiathospurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Very good post Chavy. I agree with plenty of it.

One of the proudest moments for me was when Greece, against all odds, won the Euros. They didn't do it with flair but with a cohesiveness that was quite admirable. Otto Rehhagel was an experienced coach. Being quite the tactician & disciplinarian, he envisioned a path to glory. Got the players to pull together & play a certain way as they were much shorter on talent than most of the other countries.

My point being, they mostly played defensively & on the counter, mainly out of necessity. They won & no one can take that away from the players, staff, citizens & supporters. They are Euro Champions. It will always be there. The same can be said of Jose's Spurs if they win. I'll take it. But we have far more talent than that Greece team. Furthermore, I believe that as the team evolves, so will the play. I expect it to become more expansive.

FWIW, even with all that firepower Jose had at Real Madrid, he still predominantly played a counter attack. But they did score a record 121 goals & had a goal difference of +89.
we shit housed our way out the group,with var we shit housed city,how we came back vs ajax especially after that 1st home leg let alone being 3-0 down.And best we played,most possession,most efforts on goal was the final.We lost,thats all history remembers,not anything more or less.Anyone glad about mabbutts OG in the final 87 cos at least it was a cracking game?Will Kane want to stay with us to be an entertainer or a winner?

Best we can hope for is to win,and after that start wanting it to be ajax of the 70s stylish total football.At present we dont have the players to go toe to toe with city,liverpool,probably chelsea,look at how much everton,wolves have spent,man utd,arsenal,leicester still with most of their title winning players,this isnt an easy league .We need to win trophies.We need to cross the line,we lost finals,how many semi finals,how many games can you remember of those were expansive nice to watch football?Would anyone venture to say arsenal are playing more attractive football than us?maybe,anyone want to swap where that puts the pair of us.
 
Style And Glory

Style And Glory

Player in Training.
we shit housed our way out the group,with var we shit housed city,how we came back vs ajax especially after that 1st home leg let alone being 3-0 down.And best we played,most possession,most efforts on goal was the final.We lost,thats all history remembers,not anything more or less.Anyone glad about mabbutts OG in the final 87 cos at least it was a cracking game?Will Kane want to stay with us to be an entertainer or a winner?

Best we can hope for is to win,and after that start wanting it to be ajax of the 70s stylish total football.At present we dont have the players to go toe to toe with city,liverpool,probably chelsea,look at how much everton,wolves have spent,man utd,arsenal,leicester still with most of their title winning players,this isnt an easy league .We need to win trophies.We need to cross the line,we lost finals,how many semi finals,how many games can you remember of those were expansive nice to watch football?Would anyone venture to say arsenal are playing more attractive football than us?maybe,anyone want to swap where that puts the pair of us.

There's an evolution here both within Jose & the club. Jose is willing to change. I think his time out in the wilderness after ManU has necessitated it. He's re-branding himself. As for the club, he's spoken about the ethos of the club & pleasing the fanbase. In doing so, he released the shackles earlier this season & we got some impressive results while sputtering at times (but it's still early days). Unfortunately, we also got bitten in the ass (see Wham). So he's tightened things up again until we are mentally & physically ready. As you say, we do not have the tools to go head to head with some teams but with time & careful investment, it will hopefully come.

It's imperative we are first stable/resilient, & at the right standard, before we progress to where we want to be. Expansive football will come. Jose's quite methodical & I'm really coming around to the belief that we may have the best man in place to achieve it. That's not so hard for me to say despite my convictions. Many know that he was far from my first choice as manager. But we have to look beyond ourselves & maybe be a pragmatist like Jose. Something has to come first before we can get to where we want to be.
 
Chavhater01

Chavhater01

Player in Training.
Furthermore, I believe that as the team evolves, so will the play. I expect it to become more expansive.

Thanks mate, back at ya! This by the way really stands out for me and is what I hope for too. I’d like to think he’s building a base and the shackles will slowly come off, especially against the lesser teams. He’ll continue to park the bus against the big teams but i’m cool with that, if it continues to work to the extent it has this season, or until he gets an upgraded midfielder that can take control of a big match, a Modric or a Carrick would be lovely.
 
skiathospurs

skiathospurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
There's an evolution here both within Jose & the club. Jose is willing to change. I think his time out in the wilderness after ManU has necessitated it. He's re-branding himself. As for the club, he's spoken about the ethos of the club & pleasing the fanbase. In doing so, he released the shackles earlier this season & we got some impressive results while sputtering at times (but it's still early days). Unfortunately, we also got bitten in the ass (see Wham). So he's tightened things up again until we are mentally & physically ready. As you say, we do not have the tools to go head to head with some teams but with time & careful investment, it will hopefully come.

It's imperative we are first stable/resilient, & at the right standard, before we progress to where we want to be. Expansive football will come. Jose's quite methodical & I'm really coming around to the belief that we may have the best man in place to achieve it. That's not so hard for me to say despite my convictions. Many know that he was far from my first choice as manager. But we have to look beyond ourselves & maybe be a pragmatist like Jose. Something has to come first before we can get to where we want to be.
Honestly I dont like the bloke,I dont love the football at times,I didnt like durie,poyet,graham,gallas,adebayor,dislike of rivals does and will always run deep.But I wont put them down while they represent us,god knows I stood on the shelf and really wanted to belt out the original adebayor song,but personally I cant do that.I couldnt stand there after a bad game and call them "useless cunts and to fuck off somewhere else",whether that was John lacy,mitchell thomas or postiga,soldado,not saying I dont vent frustrations at games but i try not to make it personal.Even with adebayor,I would rather have been wrong and have him on fire for the team than be happy that I told you so.

My accommodating this current regime is quite conditional on it being successful,not Levy successful in getting into the CL and making money,but winning trophies.That is the only thing making this worth the effort in the shittest of years (not football related!).Also the fact the players are so onboard with wanting to win be winners,if they werent surely bad things would be happening with the dressing room?they are applying what has been asked and seem more than fine with it.Did souness get unhappy and want to leave liverpool when frankly they were the dullest team out there,dirtiest possibly too,last half hour of games were often pass pass backpass,keeper picks it up walks around for half a minute,rolls it out,pass,pass back pass.Thats not to say they didnt play well at times and score,but was he unhappy?liverpool defence in the 80s became an english cliche FFS.So to take the next step,keep son,kane,sign improved players its winning,cos its never gonna wages under Levy.A bit of success,sign better players,maybe then Jose loses the dressing room because then players want to be more expansive and win things,or maybe jose does too?So I can suffer this season if we win,shithouse wins,undeserved wins,lucky wins thrown in there,some righteous wins as well in the majority.

Trust me if we dont end up with shiney things in a cabinet playing boring football I will get the knife out,infact if we play great football from here on in and win fuck all I will get the knife out.People want to do it now,thats fine you are probably going to be right,and his history has brought this on him.But people can always be wrong,I can accept if I am,but i always hope for the best with the team,and that wont stop just because we have a rentboy buswankersaurus in charge for however long.
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
Honestly I dont like the bloke,I dont love the football at times,I didnt like durie,poyet,graham,gallas,adebayor,dislike of rivals does and will always run deep.But I wont put them down while they represent us,god knows I stood on the shelf and really wanted to belt out the original adebayor song,but personally I cant do that.I couldnt stand there after a bad game and call them "useless cunts and to fuck off somewhere else",whether that was John lacy,mitchell thomas or postiga,soldado,not saying I dont vent frustrations at games but i try not to make it personal.Even with adebayor,I would rather have been wrong and have him on fire for the team than be happy that I told you so.

My accommodating this current regime is quite conditional on it being successful,not Levy successful in getting into the CL and making money,but winning trophies.That is the only thing making this worth the effort in the shittest of years (not football related!).Also the fact the players are so onboard with wanting to win be winners,if they werent surely bad things would be happening with the dressing room?they are applying what has been asked and seem more than fine with it.Did souness get unhappy and want to leave liverpool when frankly they were the dullest team out there,dirtiest possibly too,last half hour of games were often pass pass backpass,keeper picks it up walks around for half a minute,rolls it out,pass,pass back pass.Thats not to say they didnt play well at times and score,but was he unhappy?liverpool defence in the 80s became an english cliche FFS.So to take the next step,keep son,kane,sign improved players its winning,cos its never gonna wages under Levy.A bit of success,sign better players,maybe then Jose loses the dressing room because then players want to be more expansive and win things,or maybe jose does too?So I can suffer this season if we win,shithouse wins,undeserved wins,lucky wins thrown in there,some righteous wins as well in the majority.

Trust me if we dont end up with shiney things in a cabinet playing boring football I will get the knife out,infact if we play great football from here on in and win fuck all I will get the knife out.People want to do it now,thats fine you are probably going to be right,and his history has brought this on him.But people can always be wrong,I can accept if I am,but i always hope for the best with the team,and that wont stop just because we have a rentboy buswankersaurus in charge for however long.
I supported AVB because he was our manager but also, even though his tactics were so obviously flawed we played reasonable football. I supported Sherwood through gritted teeth and a clenched jaw for similar reasons.
I would also dearly love to win things and would happily settle settle for a league cup and Europa league - Mourinho’s return at United, together with a second place in the league, but I cannot support his anti football. It’s not what Spurs are about, or have ever been about. Jose is here for Jose and if he wins things we’ll never hear the end of it....especially from him.
And what happens in his famed second or third season when everyone turns against him - who comes in then and picks up the pieces?
I support the club and the team in this case the manager not so much.
 
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