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    Video technology is coming...at long last?

    Discussion in 'General Football' started by Don Diaz, Mar 29, 2017.

    1. Don Diaz

      Don Diaz Zero tolerance of Numpty's Founding Member

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      France lost 2-0 at home last night to Spain, but without the assistance of video replay technology the score would have been 1-1. France's goal was ruled out after 1 minute of assessment for offside having initially been given by the referee and Spains second goal was completely the opposite having first of all been ruled out for off side and then correctly awarded 40 seconds later.

      Video Assistant Referee (VAR) who in effect in this case was a man in van outside the stadium, is currently undergoing trial runs, with Fifa president Gianni Infantino keen to employ the system during the World Cup in Russia next year.

      So what's your view - get the right result, so there's no debate, there's too much at stake these days, financially mostly, with Champions League, promotion and relegation, titles and cups at stake. Or is it too much intervention, where do you draw the line? Offside goals, penalty decisions? we already have 'did the ball cross the line' technology.......bit late for England and Frank Lampard or own back for Germany in 1966.

      Football has been great without technology for about 130 years......but things have changed haven't they?
       
    2. Finchbee

      Finchbee Player in Training.

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      Personally I disagree with it because as you say we managed for 130 years. But its such big business, TV can show replay after replay and so there is just too much focus and arguing over decisions.

      If you have it needs to be quick and seemless.

      If you dont have it ban replays in some way but that would be just too difficult

      Or have it but really only for goal decisions as where do you stop.....penalty decisions fould red cards etc
       
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    3. Dorset

      Dorset The Voice Of Reason Founding Member

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      Yes mate, we now have 800 camera angles, slow motion and hi-def telly. In the olden days we had to see stuff in real time or on poxy quality black and white tellies, who knew who was offside?

      I am a supporter of video technology, I think it would take a lot of pressure from the referees. They are useless cunts, we all know that, we can all see quite clearly on TV when a bloke is 1mm offside, but these visually challenged officials miss everything - a helping hand of a video ref or a guide dog would help. Technology works well in most other sports, rugby, cricket and even girl's sports like tennis, so why wouldn't it work with football?

      I need only say fucking fuck face Foy the fucking fuckfaced fuck. If there had been a video ref that day then we would not have been fucked over by the fuckfaced fucker. Foyism must not be allowed to raise it's ugly fuckfaced head again, a video ref must be there like Big Brother watching over the watchers, then we need a video-video-ref watching the decisions of the video ref.

      I would like an appeal system, the captain could call for a decision on let's say three occasions in a match, if he was wrong then he loses on appeal, if he was right then the ref would be allowed to reverse goal decisions, award penalties, bring back blokes sent off incorrectly etc. I also want any player who is not the captain to be red carded for gobbing off at the ref, the pansy-arsed FA said they were going to stamp out the mobs screaming at officials this season, it ain't happened, it gets on my tits.
       
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    4. Finchbee

      Finchbee Player in Training.

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      Thats the bit that makes all viable to me. Like in Cricket. Happens in NFL as challenges. I think it would work
       
    5. skiathospurs

      skiathospurs Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      I would just say 40 secs is too long.Thats 40 secs you could be paying £70 quid for a ticket to endure,i guess they dont stop the clock?My reckoning is if its about the time it takes to take a goalkick (unless you are blatantly timing wasting) then thats fine,but if it requires that much scrutiny then go with the refs call if its only marginal.It is only a matter of time before the incorrect "video linesmans "call,did they dive or was it a foul,is their toe offside.
      I agree if it stops blatant cock ups but fine margins,questions of intent,simulation,who`s throw in is it,who`s corner is it?I wonder where it will all stop.
       
    6. corroded

      corroded Player in Training.

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      So the prevailing thought with goal line technology was that it had to be fast enough to be seamless. Hence the whole watch, and hawkeye business.

      The video referee in football, at least in the Premier League I don't see as a go-er. It's too slow. It's perceived as such, and actually I think that perception is correct. Faster decisions tend to be made by Hawkeye, than a video referee. Adding a stoppage to the NFL is hardly a game changer, especially in a game with roughly two minutes of stoppages for every minute of playtime (roughly 3 hours for a 60 minute game... where I could watch a game with extra time in football, and the penalties and already be on the bus home in the same timeframe)

      http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/96575 -> 28% of all stoppages in the first match of the RWC 2015 Opening Match was due to the TMO, and even then it can only be used in certain circumstances.

      Now, the computation task involved in the goal line technology is no meagre feat. We actually had a demonstration at work about this, showing how a TV cameras frame rate would often suggest a ball had not crossed the line, 100% of the way, when it in fact had. This is due to the frame rate, even at 60fps it's possible for a ball to cross totally, and not register on TV. The cameras in the system deployed by the Premier League are HFR. I forget the exact figure, but at 120fps that's double the usual frame rate, so twice as complicated as 60fps... it has to make this decision in under five seconds.

      Now, five seconds for an offside sounds fine... but is it? We all complain that a late offside is called. So in an automated system it needs to know where all the players are, where the ball is, and detect any touches... and decide if those touches were intentional, or not, probably within a second. A video ref is going to take multiple replaces, 40 seconds of video ref for an offside just doesn't fly. If you use it alongside a conventional linesman, what happens if he makes a false offside decision, which then goes through to a referee in a one on one situation... how do you even give value to the attacking side then?

      I think realistically we're a good few years away from being able to process offsides on the fly. Even then a referee or similar will have to adjudge whether certain touches were intentional or not. Even then you'd argue potentially the ref would need to be able to over rule the system... like with his.



      Before the replays, did you even see it?
       
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    7. Don Diaz

      Don Diaz Zero tolerance of Numpty's Founding Member

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      One thing to consider and currently being overlooked is the time that the typical 'goal' celebration takes. I would guess that is easily 30secs to a minute, during which the 'goal' could easily be reviewed. The Rugby Union system is starting to get on my tits, especially with that Ben Skeen bloke from NZ. I'm sure he thinks it's all about him and takes forever to make a decision.

      It's a valid point about subjective calls - penalties, red cards etc. even with the benefit of video replays and super slo-mo former players and experts can't always agree after they have seen it 50m times before match of the day. Technology can only be used in binary decisions.
       
    8. Yid

      Yid Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      Not for me...I've expressed this view many times before.

      With jumpers as goalposts the kids down the wreck can play the same game as the fellas getting paid billions of quids in the world cup final.

      Making it a different game increases the divide between them and us who dream of being in their position.

      I want to be able to see and discuss the controversy over the was it wasn't it a goal, throw in, offsides etc... that what makes it my game one I'm passionate about and will discuss with the lads down the boozer or at work on a Monday morning.
       
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    9. Ted the Yid

      Ted the Yid Well-Known Member Founding Member

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      I don't see why a fourth referee can't simply communicate a wrong decision to a referee and he then pull play back and rewind the clock. No need to actually stop play whilst each individual decision is being made.
       
    10. Nundy

      Nundy Member Founding Member

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      I'm fickle. If Kane was offside and scores a goal against the chavs and the ref gives it, I want it to stand and no technology !! Lol but if it's Costa neverless , I do want video technology in that situation and to run that smile of the pile of shits face haha
       
    11. corroded

      corroded Player in Training.

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      Yeah, we've got more chance of it working the other way round @Nundy
       

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