Royal Antwerp EL (H) thurs 10th november 2020 20.00

[Yid]

If Dele or Winks aint the back up option, who is?.... is Skip good enough...? Who is...? Surely Lamella isn't. GLC has a place as he has shown tonight.

I'd imagine we will have a busy Jan and Summer window again because all those mentioned above will be on their toes.

 

[Don Diaz]

I think Winks is probably about Wolves. Saints level, is he better than Ward-Prowse or Moutinho, about the same? He’s not in the GLC class, but apart from a few occasions under Poch he struggles to influence or control a game these days. Tough times for him

 

[Yid]

Can I just take this opportunity to say.....

Yet again..... WE ARE TOP OF THE LEAGUE.....!!!!!

 

[Chavhater01]

I think Winks is probably about Wolves. Saints level, is he better than Ward-Prowse or Moutinho, about the same? He’s not in the GLC class, but apart from a few occasions under Poch he struggles to influence or control a game these days. Tough times for him

I'd take both Ward-Prowse and Moutinho over Winks. We've seen very little of Winks consistently having much of an effect on games for a few years. I'm not a fan of his, i always say he's neat and tidy but he just plays so negatively, hasn't really excelled at any one thing for a while, he's regressed as a footballer, far to comfortable to play the simple ball sideways or back, than try and progress a move up the pitch, so many times i watch him and he consistently slows a potential attack down.

At least with Ward-Prowse, he gets himself around the pitch and likes to look forward, not to mention he's one of the finest dead ball exponents in the premier league. Moutinho also likes to get the ball moving forward.

There is clearly a decent player in there with Winks, he does have the ability to go past players and can pass the ball but for whatever reason, he so rarely shows that confidence on the ball. Whenever i see his name on the team sheet, i get that 'meh' feeling.

 

[NiceOneCyril]

This is all beginning to piss me off. What’s the point of having a bigger squad if the squad players don’t even get a full game? Mourinho even came out tonight and said the performance improved after the substitutions because the replacements had been playing regularly. Well no shit. We’d just gone up 1-0 ffs - couldn’t he have given them 10 minutes to see how they do with pressure lifted?

About a year ago, Harry Winks was man of the match for England. Now he plays like he terrified of making a mistake. Why? Because he’s terrified of making a mistake. It’s not motivational when your boss makes it clear you’re not good enough.

If I were Winksy (or Dele) I’d be on the phone to my agent asking to be moved to any other team (except Burnley). Winks in particular has been a loyal servant and deserves better. Not to mention being homegrown. Dele just needs someone to talk straight to him instead of laying fucking stupid mind games.

Never mind, when Tanguy gets into his next sulk and Lo Celso picks up his next injury, Mourinho can just ask Levy to get out his credit card and buy Ward-Prowse or Moutinho, or maybe Bruno Fernandes or Kevin De Bruyne. Plastic trophies are just as pretty, ask City or Chelsea.

 

[Don Diaz]

There is clearly a decent player in there with Winks, he does have the ability to go past players and can pass the ball but for whatever reason, he so rarely shows that confidence on the ball. Whenever i see his name on the team sheet, i get that 'meh' feeling.

This is one of the big difference between Poch and Maureen, Poch coached and made a lot of players better - Winks for one, remember Madrid away, Juventus away (from memory) and a handful of other games. That confidence has gone and he's asked to play differently. Mourinho buys his players that already fit the mould - Hojbjerg the best example, but also Sergio and he has some ready made in Dier, Kane, Toby, Davies and Sissoko. It's no coincidence that we could all pick the first XI these days with little tactical variation for the opposition.

 

[skiathospurs]

It's no coincidence that we could all pick the first XI these days with little tactical variation for the opposition.

Genuinely asking,why because it is so obvious,havent other managers found the work around yet?Lampard clearly tailored the side and approach for the game and got only a minimum of a draw,,pep,arteta fell head first into the trap,it is obvious,but seems to dumbfound other teams/managers when we bus up.

Also so if you took prime pochettino side the leicester year and put them and that style of play against the side now,what would the outcome be??Honestly most of what I enjoy at the moment is that tactically we seem untouchable,its a poor substitute for goals for/against/nervy holding on,but isnt the crab side to side that arsenal endured sunday and that we endured oh so often so much better?

 

[Don Diaz]

Genuinely asking,why because it is so obvious,havent other managers found the work around yet?Lampard clearly tailored the side and approach for the game and got only a minimum of a draw,,pep,arteta fell head first into the trap,it is obvious,but seems to dumbfound other teams/managers when we bus up.

Also so if you took prime pochettino side the leicester year and put them and that style of play against the side now,what would the outcome be??Honestly most of what I enjoy at the moment is that tactically we seem untouchable,its a poor substitute for goals for/against/nervy holding on,but isnt the crab side to side that arsenal endured sunday and that we endured oh so often so much better?

Is it worth starting a Poch vs Mourinho thread, as a good place to start the debate, because I think there are various levels to the discussion. One of which is the fact that Poch was never backed by Levy in the way that Mourinho has been.

 

[skiathospurs]

Is it worth starting a Poch vs Mourinho thread, as a good place to start the debate, because I think there are various levels to the discussion. One of which is the fact that Poch was never backed by Levy in the way that Mourinho has been.

I am a poch lover,but we have who we have,no point closing your eyes and knocking one out over an Ex.
If i sound like a turncoat,well maybe, because I wont put the boot in while we are top,whilst we are winning,even with dreadful football entertainment wise.I didnt enjoy the man utd game at wembley when we battered them and de gea had his best game and we lost,we played nice but the first part of Bill`s quote "it`s no good just winning....." well winning is a pretty important part,and those who have played/coached any level/type of football even the dog&duck on a sunday,the game is about playing and trying to get a result foremost.I really dont think kane or son give a fuck that its not silky football this year despite whatever any pundit says,they are banging in goals and we are winning.So I will take the winning,and be ready when it becomes losing to say my piece.

If we win trophies I will doff my cap,and dance a little jig,and when we dont and play bad,Jose knows what to expect from us.To his credit he doesnt care if we love him or not,he just wants to win and further his rep,and thats fine by me if he wins.

 

[Style And Glory]

Is it worth starting a Poch vs Mourinho thread, as a good place to start the debate, because I think there are various levels to the discussion. One of which is the fact that Poch was never backed by Levy in the way that Mourinho has been.

I mentioned that during the Arsenal match I could have gone & watched the grass grow in the 2nd half.
That was a knock against the way we played but it was also a compliment.

THE KNOCK was that for the vast majority of those second 45 mins we had 10-11 players defending inside our 18 which wasn't an easy watch, not because it was nervy (if fact Arse barely threatened despite all their possession & numerous crosses into the box) but for personal preferences of play (play WITH the ball). I would have preferred we kept the ball & made Arse work to get it back. They needed the ball in order to score & defending or hunting the ball down from us would have required more energy exerted by them. We could have run them ragged by playing keep ball without exerting much energy ourselves. Could have achieved the same result while making them look worse. Arse is a poor side. They offer very little going forward or defending.

THE COMPLIMENT was that Jose has instilled a discipline & resolve in the players as a team. I certainly felt that Arse would never breach our defense & we would win. Hence why I said I could stop watching. Nothing more of real interest would happen.

I truly feel that Jose has evolved. This "parking the bus" or "docking the cruise ship" is going to be the exception rather than the norm. It may still be necessary in a few matches going forward but for now it is temporary in order for us to develop that discipline & resolve all the while establishing that winning mentality. I sense that earlier this season he was willing to try & kill teams off with more goals (Southampton, ManU) but after the games against NUFC & Wham he realized the club was just not there yet tactically & mentally. His plan needed a bit more reinforcement.