Juventus A (CL) 19:45 Tues 13th February 2018

[skiathospurs]

I have to admit I was getting a bit shouty with Serge and I wanted Poch to bring Trippier on when he got booked, I could feel another West Ham away moment coming on. You're right both fullbacks had a bit of a tough time last night and occasionally so did Dier, Davinson and Dele. But everyone whjo didn't have a name starting with D played well. However this is nit-picking and being harsh in the extreme, this was Juventus away and 2-0 down after 9 minutes. Everyone knows all their records, so all of our players are going to have a dodgy moment or two. We were fantastic, need to go on though now and finish them off at Wembley.

I don't want to detract from any of our performance but does anyone else think that Juventus got complacent after going 2-0 up so early? seemed to me that they sat back, thinking they could score whenever they wanted and let us calm down and start playing, which of course then got us going to great effect.

Finally and clearly not everyone agrees, I think Jermaine Jenas commentary was insightful and almost 100% bang on throughout. I didn't like all of it, but he clearly knew what he was talking about most of the time, which can't be said for many of the TV commentators we have to listen to.

JJ is pretty good,just the right amount of bias and good knowledge.
I think when teams sit&stop what they were doing,it can be hard to get going again,Juve found this,was it them mentally or us being better?Truth is in life when you have an opponent on the deck,never take your foot off their throat,or let them get back up,did we learn nothing from bruno tyson all those years back??

 

[Don Diaz]

JJ is pretty good,just the right amount of bias and good knowledge.
I think when teams sit&stop what they were doing,it can be hard to get going again,Juve found this,was it them mentally or us being better?Truth is in life when you have an opponent on the deck,never take your foot off their throat,or let them get back up,did we learn nothing from bruno tyson all those years back??

You make some really good points -
'I think when teams sit&stop what they were doing,it can be hard to get going again' - this is exactly what we did in the Carabao Cup against West Ham at the same scoreline - look what happened.

'when you have an opponent on the deck,never take your foot off their throat' - that's exactly how David Hytner in the Guardian described our second half performance against Arsenal...in fact he said we pressed the foot harder. 100% right.

 

[Dorset]

I have to admit I was getting a bit shouty with Serge and I wanted Poch to bring Trippier on when he got booked, I could feel another West Ham away moment coming on. You're right both fullbacks had a bit of a tough time last night and occasionally so did Dier, Davinson and Dele. But everyone whjo didn't have a name starting with D played well. However this is nit-picking and being harsh in the extreme, this was Juventus away and 2-0 down after 9 minutes. Everyone knows all their records, so all of our players are going to have a dodgy moment or two. We were fantastic, need to go on though now and finish them off at Wembley.

I don't want to detract from any of our performance but does anyone else think that Juventus got complacent after going 2-0 up so early? seemed to me that they sat back, thinking they could score whenever they wanted and let us calm down and start playing, which of course then got us going to great effect.

Finally and clearly not everyone agrees, I think Jermaine Jenas commentary was insightful and almost 100% bang on throughout. I didn't like all of it, but he clearly knew what he was talking about most of the time, which can't be said for many of the TV commentators we have to listen to.

I think many of us were advising the Poch to bring on Trippier last night, I hold my hand up and admit that I was shouting this very thing at my telly, but that probably would have been a mistake. If it was a third rate, pony team like Arsenal then Tripps would have been splendid bombing down the wing, pinging in those magnificent crosses - but it was Juventus and we needed a bit of steel. I know it amazes the folks in far-far away, but the Poch really is all that and he knows what he is doing with this football malarkey, I expect he wasn't reading their in-match analysis last night - the arrogant know-it-all!

Maybe Juventus got complacent, maybe we just changed up a gear and they couldn't cope, I prefer thinking that our youngsters were just so much better than those old blokes. My Spurs glasses and ears told me that JJ was a cunt last night, but once again I will admit to being wr..., wr... nope, I still can't say that word so let's go with less correct.

 

[Don Diaz]

I think many of us were advising the Poch to bring on Trippier last night, I hold my hand up and admit that I was shouting this very thing at my telly, but that probably would have been a mistake. If it was a third rate, pony team like Arsenal then Tripps would have been splendid bombing down the wing, pinging in those magnificent crosses - but it was Juventus and we needed a bit of steel. I know it amazes the folks in far-far away, but the Poch really is all that and he knows what he is doing with this football malarkey, I expect he wasn't reading their in-match analysis last night - the arrogant know-it-all!

Maybe Juventus got complacent, maybe we just changed up a gear and they couldn't cope, I prefer thinking that we our youngsters just so much better than those old blokes. My Spurs glasses and ears told me that JJ was a cunt last night, but once again I will admit to being wr..., wr... nope, I still can't say that word so let's go with less correct.

Yep 100% agree, numpties like me overlooked the fact that Mr Trippier is not that quick across the turf, whereas Mr Aurier is. We know this because the Mane's and Sane's of this world have shown it to be so. Luckily we have the Magic man to pick the team, so when he knows that a speedy Douglas Costa is going to be playing he can pick the right fullback. He is indeed very good at this football management lark, nearly as good as all of us but still way behind those extremely clever children in a cave far, far, away.

I'm sure that Poch will now move Serge onto 'passing to a team mate' and 'tackling' lessons, I hear he is doing 'crossing' in April. Joking aside it clearly takes between 2-3 years for some players to adapt and adjust to the Premier league, our work ethic and playing style. Lamela and Son being great examples. I look forward to a great season from Sissoko next year along with Aurier.

 

[Yid]

I think many of us were advising the Poch to bring on Trippier last night, I hold my hand up and admit that I was shouting this very thing at my telly, but that probably would have been a mistake. If it was a third rate, pony team like Arsenal then Tripps would have been splendid bombing down the wing, pinging in those magnificent crosses - but it was Juventus and we needed a bit of steel. I know it amazes the folks in far-far away, but the Poch really is all that and he knows what he is doing with this football malarkey, I expect he wasn't reading their in-match analysis last night - the arrogant know-it-all!

Maybe Juventus got complacent, maybe we just changed up a gear and they couldn't cope, I prefer thinking that our youngsters were just so much better than those old blokes. My Spurs glasses and ears told me that JJ was a cunt last night, but once again I will admit to being wr..., wr... nope, I still can't say that word so let's go with less correct.

I prefer JJ to most. Shera is starting to get on my tits but he was without doubt a proper player and has a right to an oppinion.

I like Rio. Yes he is a Utd fanboy but he has been there and done it all. Isn't afraid of saying how it is. Glad Roy kean isn't on the TV anymore the miserable ugly prick.

 

[Finchbee]

I prefer JJ to most. Where is starting to egtbon my tits but he was without doubt a proper player and has a right to an oppinion.

I like Rio. Yes he is a Utd fanboy but he has been there and done it all. Isn't afraid of saying how it is. Glad Roy keanisn't on the TV anymore the miserable ugly prick.

JJ needs more bias !! lol

Rio was brilliant last night for 2 reasons...1) he said push on Kane was a pen and 2) Kane is best in world

 

[Don Diaz]

I prefer JJ to most. Where is starting to egtbon my tits but he was without doubt a proper player and has a right to an oppinion.

I like Rio. Yes he is a Utd fanboy but he has been there and done it all. Isn't afraid of saying how it is. Glad Roy keanisn't on the TV anymore the miserable ugly prick.

Roy Keane, was and probably still is an arrogant, nasty, dirty player. He ended at least one persons playing career with a vicious tackle. For me that isn't being strong, that's cowardice.

 

[skiathospurs]

So shall we bleat on for days about this or just move on!! #askingforascouser

 

[Finchbee]

So shall we bleat on for days about this or just move on!! #askingforascouser

Its funny we wont whinge about these things.......

 

[Boone]

So shall we bleat on for days about this or just move on!! #askingforascouser

Wow I didn’t hear the commentators (here in America) or even the halftime pundits mention this at all... Interesting how things like this happen whereas if the tables were turned we wouldn’t hear the end of it.

 

[J.spurs]

So shall we bleat on for days about this or just move on!! #askingforascouser

I also won’t complain about the pretty clear obstruction when dele was screened off, which is what left higuain so open in the first place.

 

[Don Diaz]

So shall we bleat on for days about this or just move on!! #askingforascouser

Noooo let's bleat on about it for days...........ha ha ha ha

 

[conor1]

Someone said why the fuck was lamela starting...looked like he had never been out of team

Agreed mate. Imo he pushed Dembele and Eriksen close for motm

 

[J.spurs]

Good piece on enjoying this team from the Guardian's Barney Ronay, a writer I very much like.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/feb/14/tottenham-hotspur-delight-champions-league-juventus

It’s time to ignore the sceptics and take delight in this Tottenham team
The last time a Premier League team produced a stirring two-goal comeback in Turin was in 1999 when the world was still young, when the current managers of Chelsea, Real Madrid and France were playing for Juventus, and when a Manchester United team with an armature of homegrown talent gave post-Heysel English football its first really compelling European story.

The comparison with Tottenham’s stirring 2-2 draw at the Allianz Stadium on Tuesday goes only so far. Which is, in reality, not very far at all. There was a tempting little mnemonic in the angle of Tottenham’s comeback goal, the way Harry Kane cut the ball across into the far corner from the left, drawing an echo of Roy Keane’s flicked near-post header with United also 2-0 down, a moment of footballing Madeleine cake washing about in a silver teaspoon of grainy old YouTube highlights’ films.

Otherwise these were two entirely separate occasions. United were the best and wealthiest team in England, edging a bit closer to becoming European champions every season. The game itself was a semi-final second leg. Plus, of course, Alex Ferguson’s team actually went on and won the trophy that year.

The reason for mentioning it here is simply as a point of contrast in the aftermath. United’s victory in Turin came in the pre-social media age. At the time it was reported with an air of unqualified celebration, a comeback to be cherished without objection, and indeed with a certain shared domestic pride.

Which just goes to show how wrong you can be. No doubt things would have been very different had we been blessed in the spring of 1999 with the instant hive mind of Twitter and Facebook. Those watching would have been made aware that, in fact, United were extremely lucky, overrated and favoured by referees. That Paul Scholes was a thug and Roy Keane a coward. That Juventus were missing [insert name of player here] so it didn’t count anyway.

Play V​

In terms of reaction and response this is the most notable aspect of writing about Tottenham right now, the constant anti-chorus of sceptics, doom-merchants and all-round nay-sayers. Spurs, we hear, are simply media darlings, beneficiaries of a conspiracy to project their successes as more valid and more life-affirming than other high-achieving English clubs. Spurs are the ewoks here. Look at them. Look at their floppy ears. Their bows and arrows. And who doesn’t like ewoks?


Whereas in reality this is a team who have won nothing and receive relentlessly favourable reviews because of an obvious media conspiracy. Such insight is social media’s gift to all Spurs-watchers. Distrust the evidence of your eyes. This is all, in the words of the internet’s best and brightest, “a bias”.

In fairness it is easy to see why fans of rival teams might be irritated. The fact is they’re right. There probably is a little bias here, a shared fondness for Pochettino-era Spurs, a tendency to dwell on their achievements in more detail, to recount once again the backstory of prudent spending and young players brought on, to wonder how far this act of team-building can progress before money decides it must be decisively disrupted.

Understandably so. It is almost impossible not to feel interested by Tottenham’s success. Human beings are addicted to stories, to the narrative arc. This is why professional sport exists and thrives. And there is a coherent story to this Poch-era Spurs, a team brought together out of well-chosen human parts rather than yanked-in walk-on stars.

Not to mention a simple point of contrast. High-priced instant team-building is also fun to watch. But most fans would like to see their own team built this way, would prefer players who grow into stars rather than arriving ready-made. Pochettino himself is hugely likable, a lucid, courteous, agreeably bear-like head coach. His team play football that is innately attacking and confrontational, a game of sprints and collisions and constant ferreting pressure.



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Harry Kane and Gianluigi Buffon embrace after the game in Turin. Photograph: Michael Regan/Getty Images

Journalists are hardly immune to this. These are people who love the stories around sport, who want (almost) every team to succeed, or at least to succeed in a way that makes for a yarn. Hence the similar “bias” in favour of that mid-Fergie United team, back in the blinkered old days of just thinking a two-goal comeback in Turin was a good thing. What fan of sport, all tribalism aside, wouldn’t want an attacking team packed with homegrown players to win the European Cup?


With this in mind it’s not hard to see the fallacy of those boiler-plate social media objections. Yes, Spurs haven’t won a trophy. But building rather than buying success has always taken a little longer. It is a more precarious business, not least at a time when Big Football’s finances can skew success so violently one way.

Tottenham have spent less on players than Huddersfield, Burnley and Bournemouth over the last five years, but have so far been a match for Juventus, Real Madrid and Borussia Dortmund this season. If you like sport at all this is something to be at least noted and pored over. And yet even as the team have improved there has been a degree of countdown to player-poaching Armageddon. The insurrection can still be crushed. Spurs could win nothing at all, could see Harry Kane, Christian Eriksen and Dele Alli scattered to the winds two years from now. But from a purely sporting point of view this doesn’t devalue the process; or lessen the fun – that thrillingly infectious sporting bias – of watching it unfold.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

There are many cases in sporting history of talented young teams being very inconsistent during their development. The English media often misses this, lazily hiding behind either success or failure as being the basis of whatever daily headline that they think will sell the highest number of papers. Every time you read an article about Spurs, there is always the "they haven't won a trophy" disclaimer and that in itself is a ridiculous way of measuring such a young team.

Then, at a point during the evolution of a young team into a mature team something often clicks....and it appears that this happens overnight but it is only as a result of years of planning and years of learning how to turn disappointment into success. We are watching it happen in real time with this Tottenham team. Strap yourselves in for a fun ride (as if it hasn't been already) because we are approaching the day when this squad fully evolves into the truly world class team that it has promised to become from the day that Pochettino walked into the joint.

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." Michael Jordan

 

[Style And Glory]

You're right Crypty.
The transformation is happening right before our eyes. It's a wonderful "evolution" as Poch tends to say.

And that quote, I've mentioned it many times to various teams I've been involved with & they are always surprised when they find out who those words belong to.

 

[Wotspur]

So Davies gave away a pen , was that as disastrous as Kane missing his header from 2 yards out , yeah I know, as does Buffon , forwards are taught to head it Back from whence it came.
Aurier onthe other hand ( West Ham Red Card, RM pen, last night Pen) and I’m pretty sure there’s another feck up, he is a 1 Man suicide mission .
Last nights game was overall very optomistic , despite the papers saying , “ but Juve were without 3/4 of their first teasers .....maybe they were, but we were without Toby, and as already mentioned , Aurier was playing so that’s like a man down.
Thankfully, despite playing Aurier, Poch has finally seen the light and stopped playing Dier at CB , and has found Sissoko best position , on the bench .
Final,y Dembele had control of the ball for a full 10% of the match time, he controlled the whole midfield, and with Erickson regally was the difference .

 

[deejbah]

There are many cases in sporting history of talented young teams being very inconsistent during their development. The English media often misses this, lazily hiding behind either success or failure as being the basis of whatever daily headline that they think will sell the highest number of papers. Every time you read an article about Spurs, there is always the "they haven't won a trophy" disclaimer and that in itself is a ridiculous way of measuring such a young team.

Then, at a point during the evolution of a young team into a mature team something often clicks....and it appears that this happens overnight but it is only as a result of years of planning and years of learning how to turn disappointment into success. We are watching it happen in real time with this Tottenham team. Strap yourselves in for a fun ride (as if it hasn't been already) because we are approaching the day when this squad fully evolves into the truly world class team that it has promised to become from the day that Pochettino walked into the joint.

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." Michael Jordan

This is actually a big thing in learning in general, a lot of learning and development will occur in a non-linear fashion and it's why you get players like Kane, Wright and Vardy who people write off and then just take off.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

This is actually a big thing in learning in general, a lot of learning and development will occur in a non-linear fashion and it's why you get players like Kane, Wright and Vardy who people write off and then just take off.

A proper pundit understands this. All too often though, you will see pretend journalists and ex-players (who really should know better) take the simpleton's approach of measuring everything by wins and losses and creating propaganda out of thin air based on only this. Whilst I agree that the end measure of success almost entirely depends on what you win and what you don't, all of the smaller milestones and hurdles cleared along the way are forgotten about by those with poorly hidden agendas. Take the whole Harry Kane leaving for greener pastures piffle that seems to show it's ugly face every time Tottenham is discussed. It is pure speculation designed only to agitate people. Most of the time, I am convinced that it is not even the pundit's true opinion. It is either rehashed so that irrelevant people can stay involved in the conversation, or just a baseless lie without the necessary due diligence. It used to be that you had to have reliable sources to commit to printing a story but "journalists" these days pass opinion off as fact with every word that they write. For all we know Harry Kane and Mauricio Pochettino are committed for the long term, enjoying the project and will not be turned by whatever promises (and money) other clubs throw at them. For all we know Harry Kane loves Spurs that much that he will be here until he hangs them up. The media though, they take the win/loss column and number of trophies in the cabinet as justification for making up complete and utter bullshit.

 

[deejbah]

A proper pundit understands this. All too often though, you will see pretend journalists and ex-players (who really should know better) take the simpleton's approach of measuring everything by wins and losses and creating propaganda out of thin air based on only this. Whilst I agree that the end measure of success almost entirely depends on what you win and what you don't, all of the smaller milestones and hurdles cleared along the way are forgotten about by those with poorly hidden agendas. Take the whole Harry Kane leaving for greener pastures piffle that seems to show it's ugly face every time Tottenham is discussed. It is pure speculation designed only to agitate people. Most of the time, I am convinced that it is not even the pundit's true opinion. It is either rehashed so that irrelevant people can stay involved in the conversation, or just a baseless lie without the necessary due diligence. It used to be that you had to have reliable sources to commit to printing a story but "journalists" these days pass opinion off as fact with every word that they write. For all we know Harry Kane and Mauricio Pochettino are committed for the long term, enjoying the project and will not be turned by whatever promises (and money) other clubs throw at them. For all we know Harry Kane loves Spurs that much that he will be here until he hangs them up. The media though, they take the win/loss column and number of trophies in the cabinet as justification for making up complete and utter bullshit.

This is very true but you'd be surprised how many clubs and coaches don't really understand the concept of non-linear development both in terms of how they approach coaching and how they select/screen out players at very early ages and this feeds into how they see team building and team performance.

 

[J.spurs]

As people have said, a lot of the "they haven't won anything" brigade are basically just on the wind up and should just be ignored. Clickbait, headlines, etc. But strangely, I think that our players feel the same way, and that's a good thing..

 

[Yid]

Can I make an observation....

Serge gives me a bit of the Ekotto'wobbles.

Brilliantly brilliant then an utter brain fsrt 15 second later.

Discuss......

 

[Dorset]

Can I make an observation....

Serge gives me a bit of the Ekotto'wobbles.

Brilliantly brilliant then an utter brain fsrt 15 second later.

Discuss......

OK, it's sort of like a heavy plate that athletes bung a very long way in the Olympics (not winter, they wouldn't be able to find them in the snow).

 

[birdonaball]

The mighty Juventus scored a penalty and an off side goal and then said 'here's the ball Spurs, go play- you can't get back a two goal lead'.

More fool them.

We were so generous that Serge handed them another penalty.

Jokes aside, we showed maturity, grit and guts to suck it up, lift our heads and go again. Extremely proud of the lads.

Juventus won't make that mistake again against us and we will have to be truly switched on not to concede early. But I got faith that we'll do it.

Well done lads.

 

[Wotspur]

Can I make an observation....

Serge gives me a bit of the Ekotto'wobbles.

Brilliantly brilliant then an utter brain fsrt 15 second later.

Discuss......

When in all the games he’s played has he done ANYTHING Brilliantly brilliant......so far he’s given away 3 penalties and been sent off ! Give me KWP, he’s faster against Costa and he’s never let Spurs down

 

[Yid]

When in all the games he’s played has he done ANYTHING Brilliantly brilliant......so far he’s given away 3 penalties and been sent off ! Give me KWP, he’s faster against Costa and he’s never let Spurs down

I was trying to be optimistic.

You..... wernt.

 

[skiathospurs]

I was trying to be optimistic.

You..... wernt.

I am too,but he needs to calm down a bit and do the defensive side foremost.It cant be easy at spurs,fullbacks are in and out with rotation,he needs to look no further than tripps and davies to see what getting your head down and working hard for the club is all about.Maybe he is trying too hard to impress,bloke just needs to get solid and then expand his game with us.