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US Election WTF???

Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
Heard a great phrase on The today Programme yesterday in their piece on the Republican convention. Their assessment was that ‘it would appear that only Trump can save America from Trumps America......‘ Quite - the irony is brilliant, I wish more Americans could see it....millions and millions more, please.
God help America and the rest of the world if he wins again. Personally o can’t even begin to imagine how bad it would get.......
 
Yid

Yid

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Heard a great phrase on The today Programme yesterday in their piece on the Republican convention. Their assessment was that ‘it would appear that only Trump can save America from Trumps America......‘ Quite - the irony is brilliant, I wish more Americans could see it....millions and millions more, please.
God help America and the rest of the world if he wins again. Personally o can’t even begin to imagine how bad it would get.......
If he does, I wouldn't put it past him hit the dictator button and do what he can to install himself as supreme leader in some guise.

I don't know how he would do it, but I reckon the Americans are in for 4 more years of doubling down from this solid gold cunt if he wins. Your country is already pulling itself apart and it won't change with him, it'll just get worse.

Biden won't be able to steady the ship, the seas are way too choppy for him to achieve it. I'm yet to see anything from him that demonstrates his worthiness for the job. Infact neither if them are applying for the job they're just attacking one another, or keeping schtum in order for the other to bury themselves.

I think Bidens running partner is the closest thing to a prisendtial candidate on the bill... if she was supported she could do it... but she would 100% need to drain the swamp and hit a political reset that would intern, be so decisive that it would just add to the fractures of American society.

I think there is going to need to be a reset in the Western world in the next decade or two and that does mean a war or two unfortunately. We're too far gone now to bring it back with reasonable debate.

I see it sooner rather than later as we're well on our way with regare trade wars etc... once a country is starved or run down the reach for the button isnt as far because you've got fuck all left to loose.
 
Dorset

Dorset

The Voice Of Reason
Founding Member
Donald Trump boasted on Sunday of receiving “the highly honoured Bay of Pigs Award” from Cuban Americans in the battleground state of Florida.

Oh dear, there is no such award, what a surprise! Perhaps he meant the Big Fat Lying Pig award? This bloke is so obviously criminally insane and needs to be locked up, but there is a strong possibility that he will win re-election in November. What the actual fuck is going on in the World? People are stupid, we know that, but who would have thought that so may people could be so pig ignorant stupid? How could Trump have a popularity rating that even reaches double digits? How could 30% of the UK electorate support the wannabe facist Johnson's plan to break international law? How did he get elected after over a decade of Tory mismanagement and austerity? How could so many people be conned into voting for Brexit by the self-interested ERG group who are all going to make millions for themselves and billions for their backers by wrecking the UK? How the fuck can anyone with more than one brain cell listen to Trump's incoherent ramblings think he could run a church fete tombola stall let alone a country?

WTF?
 
J.spurs

J.spurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
My boys have (socially-distanced) training every weekend at this field that, like most over here, is out in a rural area. Every week, we drive past a new house with a massive, often handpainted Trump sign. There are enormous Trump flags, massive banners people have hanging from their front porches, etc. Often alongside Confederate flags, which were not uncommon in the past, but are now everywhere. One guy has a big sign, probably 6X12, in front of his house calling the lockdown the first step toward the Final Solution, and quoting Trump when he tweeted "Liberate" the states on lockdown. Another a massive handmade sign that says "Trump, Guns, and Jesus." None of this means he wins the election, of course--this the North Carolina countryside, just miles from one of the most reliably-Democrat voting areas in the country. Truthfully, it's not looking good for him in some of the states that he has to win, including this state.

But all of this shit is raising a disturbing question: What happens if he loses? This is a cult, not a political movement.
 
Yid

Yid

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
I think that orange cunt has opened up a new level of acceptable violence, hatred and defamation in a country where violence, hatred and defamation is far too common anyway.

I hate to say it, but it does seem to have gone too far and you're on the brink of tearing yourself apart just as your detractors and enemies want, but until now could have never ever wished for.

Looks like Russias interference in the democraric elections of the "free world" has in the long term been and absolute fucking gem of an idea that has destroyed those democracies, destabilised the goverments and divided and marginalised theire people.

Imagine if they had conspired with another rogue state or dictatorship to further destabalise the social and economic west by releasing a deadly pandemic....

Of course i jest for the last bit.... but what if...!!!
 
Style And Glory

Style And Glory

Player in Training.
With Trump re-writing history, fabricating & destabilizing the present, consequently the future appears far darker.

He's rhetoric has allowed other extremists, mainly racists, to crawl out from under their rocks. It's far more common to hear & see that sort of speech & action on a daily basis. They're considered "lower case kkk" because they have racist leanings but not that extreme that they willingly wear hoods & burn stakes on your front lawn.

The States are not so united anymore. I'm hearing from some learned sources that if the current climate of unrest & divisiveness continues, in a matter of just a few years, many states will break away from the rest in order to create their own separate countries.
 
Dorset

Dorset

The Voice Of Reason
Founding Member
With Trump re-writing history, fabricating & destabilizing the present, consequently the future appears far darker.

He's rhetoric has allowed other extremists, mainly racists, to crawl out from under their rocks. It's far more common to hear & see that sort of speech & action on a daily basis. They're considered "lower case kkk" because they have racist leanings but not that extreme that they willingly wear hoods & burn stakes on your front lawn.

The States are not so united anymore. I'm hearing from some learned sources that if the current climate of unrest & divisiveness continues, in a matter of just a few years, many states will break away from the rest in order to create their own separate countries.
.. and on a much smaller scale Scotland will leave the UK, Ireland will be reunited and even Wales might decide to bugger off from Little England when they see their two big brothers leaving home. Who could blame those countries for wanting to leave the Turnip Monarchy of Little England, or the states in the USA who decide they don't want to risk living in a dictatorship? Maybe some of those states up in the top right hand side of the USA could join Canada?
 
Yid

Yid

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
With Trump re-writing history, fabricating & destabilizing the present, consequently the future appears far darker.

He's rhetoric has allowed other extremists, mainly racists, to crawl out from under their rocks. It's far more common to hear & see that sort of speech & action on a daily basis. They're considered "lower case kkk" because they have racist leanings but not that extreme that they willingly wear hoods & burn stakes on your front lawn.

The States are not so united anymore. I'm hearing from some learned sources that if the current climate of unrest & divisiveness continues, in a matter of just a few years, many states will break away from the rest in order to create their own separate countries.
Its a travesty mate but not one completely of natural design.

Russia did an absolute number on you guys and us, by being craftier and cleverer with social media. The West were soooo late to the party that the damage has well and trully been done and I would say, irreversibly so.

Power will shift over the next few deccades with wars and civil unrest breaking out left right and centre among the developed world as those with the resources try to desperately cling onto it and those without it fight to have it.

I fear countires like the US and the UK will need to enter into another arms race to either reestablish their power, keep hold of it or fend off those who wish to take their liberty...

The world our kids are inheriting is a steaming pile of horse shite right now on so many fronts.
 
NiceOneCyril

NiceOneCyril

Player in Training.
My boys have (socially-distanced) training every weekend at this field that, like most over here, is out in a rural area. Every week, we drive past a new house with a massive, often handpainted Trump sign. There are enormous Trump flags, massive banners people have hanging from their front porches, etc. Often alongside Confederate flags, which were not uncommon in the past, but are now everywhere. One guy has a big sign, probably 6X12, in front of his house calling the lockdown the first step toward the Final Solution, and quoting Trump when he tweeted "Liberate" the states on lockdown. Another a massive handmade sign that says "Trump, Guns, and Jesus." None of this means he wins the election, of course--this the North Carolina countryside, just miles from one of the most reliably-Democrat voting areas in the country. Truthfully, it's not looking good for him in some of the states that he has to win, including this state.

But all of this shit is raising a disturbing question: What happens if he loses? This is a cult, not a political movement.
I think we live in very similar areas. Biggest problem facing people here in central PA is how to get all three flags (confederate, Trump "No More Bullshit" and "Blue Lives Matter") to fly from the truck tailgate without getting all tangled up. But you're right, I'm almost as afraid of him losing as of him winning.
 
BrooklynYid

BrooklynYid

Player in Training.
I think we live in very similar areas. Biggest problem facing people here in central PA is how to get all three flags (confederate, Trump "No More Bullshit" and "Blue Lives Matter") to fly from the truck tailgate without getting all tangled up. But you're right, I'm almost as afraid of him losing as of him winning.
Picturing this made me lol! Just throw in a guy in a mullet drinking a Yuengling.
 
spurious

spurious

Player in Training.
No offense to central PA and all.
And especially to the Yuengling. I spent four years in PA and that's one of the things I miss.

The flags, not so much.

But yes, I fear for you neighbours. Not least because the debacle will spread.
 
NiceOneCyril

NiceOneCyril

Player in Training.
No offense taken, beautiful rural place, horrible rural politics. I’m a city boy (Black Boy Lane in N15, can’t believe THAT name hasn’t been changed yet) even after 20 years here, so a bit envious of you.
 
J.spurs

J.spurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
I think we live in very similar areas. Biggest problem facing people here in central PA is how to get all three flags (confederate, Trump "No More Bullshit" and "Blue Lives Matter") to fly from the truck tailgate without getting all tangled up. But you're right, I'm almost as afraid of him losing as of him winning.
The irony of a Confederate flag in central PA (and I've been there many a time, they're all over the place, and have been for years) is really something.
 
spurious

spurious

Player in Training.
I read once that back in Civil War days there were bands of armed Quakers (yes, peace-loving, pacifist, conscientious objector Quakers) who patrolled the Mason-Dixon line, round about where you see these flags nowaday, to "convince" any crackers hunting escaped slaves that they better turn tail and head home.

Never took the time to confirm this, but a story I want to believe is true, even if it don't mean fuck-all today.
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
Can you US folk, explain to the ignorant and uninitiated like me, where Trump's support comes from and how he keeps getting away with lies and making a fool of himself, yet retains his popularity? I know he's regenerated some of the formally defunct industries and the stock market has been booming, but overall the man is a loose cannon on every level and not to be trusted?
 
Dorset

Dorset

The Voice Of Reason
Founding Member
Can you US folk, explain to the ignorant and uninitiated like me, where Trump's support comes from and how he keeps getting away with lies and making a fool of himself, yet retains his popularity? I know he's regenerated some of the formally defunct industries and the stock market has been booming, but overall the man is a loose cannon on every level and not to be trusted?
Has he really done those things? I know he says he has, but what has he actually done? Were his tax cuts for the wealthy anything to do with stock market gains that were probably well on their way under Obama and is lumbering a country with trillions of dollars of debt really that clever?

Can any UK folks do the same and explain the support for Johnson?
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
Has he really done those things? I know he says he has, but what has he actually done? Were his tax cuts for the wealthy anything to do with stock market gains that were probably well on their way under Obama and is lumbering a country with trillions of dollars of debt really that clever?

Can any UK folks do the same and explain the support for Johnson?
I don't know about Trump - hence the question. With regard to Johnson, he lied his way to win the Brexit vote with false anecdotes and fake facts and that is what the 'Little Englanders' also voted for in the general election, regardless of everything else I think. Labour couldn't land a punch and that helped them too.
 
J.spurs

J.spurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Can you US folk, explain to the ignorant and uninitiated like me, where Trump's support comes from and how he keeps getting away with lies and making a fool of himself, yet retains his popularity? I know he's regenerated some of the formally defunct industries and the stock market has been booming, but overall the man is a loose cannon on every level and not to be trusted?
I think we're still coming to grips with this, and different people support him for different reasons. He hasn't really done much for any of these defunct industries, and of course the stock market is not the best indicator of widespread economic health--just ask the average investor in 1929.

If I had to isolate one simple thing about Trump that appeals to people, it's that he pisses off people like me. I've often said that the only thing Trump has ever been successful at is convincing ignorant people that he's successful. They like the fact that he just shoots off at the mouth, and that he's full of shit, because they've convinced themselves that the world (which in their minds means pointy-headed academics like me, social justice activists, Democratic Party types like Clinton/Biden, dangerous "Antifa" mobs, and so on) are out to get them. They love that he upsets people who they (with some justification) think have ignored them or condescended to them for years. They like the fact that he uses his office to enrich his family and to carry out private vendettas, because that's what they'd do if they were in office. Above all, they support him not in spite of the stupid shit he says, but because of it.

A consequence of this is that every time someone points out that he's full of shit, or that something he's said is appallingly racist, or whatever, it actually strengthens his appeal. It's evidence that the people they resent, and view as basically un-American, are out to get Trump because he's smashing the system.

But to go a bit deeper: Where does all this come from? That depends on who you ask, but I think a lot of it is white resentment and anxiety. Republicans have been playing on racial resentment since the late sixties, Trump is just saying the quiet part loud. It's appealing because working-class white people have witnessed the jobs their parents had vanish in the last decades. Literally every town of under 150,000 people in the state where I live has suffered from closing industries, and we haven't had the political will to address that, partially because our politics is completely in the pocket of corporate interests. The fact that this has largely been due to the popularity of conservative economic views is lost on people who have pretty reliably voted for Republicans due to their social views (abortion, in particular). It's easier and less threatening to their worldview to blame it on African Americans, or on immigrants, or "socialists," or whatever.

Trump may be a babbling, incoherent cretin, but he has gutter instincts. He knows that desperate people are willing to believe bullshit, and he knows exactly what buttons to push to make them feel desperate. I'm always struck by how sad it is that many of these people have convinced themselves that some two-bit grifter from Queens who literally couldn't be any more patronizing to them is somehow their savior. And in so doing, they're empowering the absolute looting of America.

This is a bit long, but it still only scratches the surface. But IMO these are the factors that motivate his political base.
 
NiceOneCyril

NiceOneCyril

Player in Training.
Thats a very good analysis @J.spurs. Add his true believers to the better educated single issue voters (i.e. pro-lifers) who are willing to hold their noses while they vote for him, and I can't see a Biden victory. Reagan and his successors have managed to instill a fear of government and a firm belief in trickle-down economics in the white working class, despite the obvious wealth and quality of life disparities that have resulted. Trump and his cronies now find themselves able to push it further, so because they are not troubled by morals, they do.

And if you'll permit me to make a huge generalization: people here constantly refer to the "American Ideal/American Experiment/American Dream" which I understand to be a belief in self-reliance, individual responsibility, and pulling up your bootstraps to "be all that you can be". Those are all great qualities, but bloody hell, if they aren't allied with compassion and kindness, they just amount to cruelty. My wife made the observation the other day that when we hear the phrase "family comes first" it sounds like a good idea, but that it really means "I don't give a shit about anyone not in my family". I'd venture that "America First" is an extension of that.

And here's why you can't win hearts and minds: I suggested to my Republican neighbor that neoliberalism might be at the heart of our current societal problems, and he agreed with me: it's them damn liberals makin' all the trouble.
 
Yid

Yid

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Great chat lads...

And take this as its meant, but just how would a civil war take off over there??? There's obviously military grade weapons readily available and the country is polarised enough and consists of the right mixture of people with fuck all left to loose, those mad enough to bear arms against their neighbours and those thick enough to be coerced into fighting someone else's fight...

For context, I think we're a long way off over here (due to exhaustion and apathy) and we'd be using cricket bats, pitch forks and Swiss army knives to fight the plod.... i do think following Brexit and people have a lot more of the fuck all they ordered, there will be a huge groundswell of tutting and raised eyebrows about the fibs told by those scallywags in parliment...
 
NiceOneCyril

NiceOneCyril

Player in Training.
It feels so volatile here at the moment that I don’t even want to think about it. Quite terrifying really. This forum is as much social media as I am prepared to deal with, it’s so fractious.
 
USspur

USspur

Player in Training.
im in metro detroit and there is no sense of 'civil war'. i think we will be ok either way the election goes
 
USspur

USspur

Player in Training.
also, the i know loads of republicans that are and similarly are not voting for him.

those that will still vote for trump do so because of the economic effects of voting for biden. They think trump's tax plan for the middle class / small business owner will be lower than if biden was elected. they dont care about the rest of it, just how their income will be effected.

the republicans who arent voting for him are generally not business owners and see him for the cnut that he is as a human.
 
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USspur

USspur

Player in Training.
the sooner we get past the two party system the better. only problem is, i dont ever see that happening (ever).

also, the sooner that we all realize that we are all pawns in a larger game of chess the better.

we need more moderate politicians who dont vote party lines elected. unfortunately to get to the house or senate or any real standing in politics you have to take a lot of lobbyist money. and they then dictate how you vote on issues.

we all know this. i apologize for preaching to the choir.
 
Dorset

Dorset

The Voice Of Reason
Founding Member
Thats a very good analysis @J.spurs. Add his true believers to the better educated single issue voters (i.e. pro-lifers) who are willing to hold their noses while they vote for him, and I can't see a Biden victory. Reagan and his successors have managed to instill a fear of government and a firm belief in trickle-down economics in the white working class, despite the obvious wealth and quality of life disparities that have resulted. Trump and his cronies now find themselves able to push it further, so because they are not troubled by morals, they do.

And if you'll permit me to make a huge generalization: people here constantly refer to the "American Ideal/American Experiment/American Dream" which I understand to be a belief in self-reliance, individual responsibility, and pulling up your bootstraps to "be all that you can be". Those are all great qualities, but bloody hell, if they aren't allied with compassion and kindness, they just amount to cruelty. My wife made the observation the other day that when we hear the phrase "family comes first" it sounds like a good idea, but that it really means "I don't give a shit about anyone not in my family". I'd venture that "America First" is an extension of that.

And here's why you can't win hearts and minds: I suggested to my Republican neighbor that neoliberalism might be at the heart of our current societal problems, and he agreed with me: it's them damn liberals makin' all the trouble.
I get confused by the 'pro lifers' they seem to be the ones who are very keen on guns and executions. So I guess they are only pro some lives. Personally I don't think we should sign any trade deals or treaties with any country still using capital punishment, it doesn't work as a deterrent, it is not the state's job to exact revenge, the terrorists they all want executed welcome martyrdom and any chance of an innocent person being executed is too great, Of course there are some people who can never be released from prison, serial killers are by definition mentally ill and no state should be killing mentally ill people. OK, it costs money to keep dangerous criminals looked up for ever but fuck all in real terms to a country like the US of A and I believe it is the job of the state to protect its citizens, both the victims and the nutters.
 
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Dorset

Dorset

The Voice Of Reason
Founding Member
Apparently the Big Orange Loon's latest coven cure is Oleandrin. Maybe he should get himself a plant and eat some of that delicious Oleander. It grows all over the place here and many councils have banned it because - "Consumption of the plant causes nausea, vomiting, irregular heartbeats, drops in blood pressure, and death". You can't burn it, because the smoke will kill you, you have to wear special protective stuff to prune it, and you're not supposed to dump the trimmings at the green waste bins - but there must be 100 houses locally that use it as a hedge, it grows really quickly and is beautiful. We've got a little one in a pot in our garden, if that Trump comes here for tea he will be having a 'special' salad.
 
Yid

Yid

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Presented without comment:
How is that not offensive? How has she not been arrested for some anti social behaviour crime?

Thats rhe thing that grips my shit.... disagree, state your opinion, even try to back it up.with facts, demonatrate too if tou feel that strongly and are empowered enough to do so.... but to keep upping to simply cause shock and awe and raging indecency..... i wonder who they learned that trick of Mr president...
 
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