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Holy fuck batman its no way Jose.....

USspur

USspur

Player in Training.
he is definitely winning me over.

the first month i was pretty over him. now, i am over the moon with him
 
Dorset

Dorset

The Voice Of Reason
Founding Member
I am not joining this love fest for the cunt, but I will watch with interest and see if the fanboys still love him this much when we have played more than a handful of games and we no longer top of the table, I will not gloat or remind them how much they loved him - nah, of course I fucking will!
 
Yid

Yid

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
For me, I am prepared to give him a chance now... he is still a cunt but I won't levy that at him for the time being.

I do think the way he set us up (if it was his doing and not the players, as he and the players only had 2 days together post internationals) against Citeh was superb. It worked, there is no denying the scoreline and the way Citeh walked off the pitch knowing there been fucked by Spurs who soaked up the best they could muster, rode their luck a bit and smashed the granny out of them on the counter.

No shame in changing your view, changing your mind or even admiring you were wrong.
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
he is definitely winning me over.

the first month i was pretty over him. now, i am over the moon with him
Do you remember Mourinho's Inter Milan team beating (Pep's) Barcelona over two legs in the CL semi final and the way they played in the Nou Camp in the second leg? Or his Chelsea against Liverpool when Gerrard slipped and United in the EL final and......etc. He wins games and that's good, that's the point right, but even the own fans of his teams, like us now, find little to excite and applaud generally? On Saturday evening I watched the game almost from behind a cushion. We were battered in the first half. All 11 Spurs players average positions were in our own half. We had two attcks from memory, scored from one and had a goal disallowed from the other (which ws admittedly a ppiece of sublime passing football). I loved the win but we can't watch Spurs playing like that just for the win for another 30-40 games. Can we?
 
J.spurs

J.spurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Do you remember Mourinho's Inter Milan team beating (Pep's) Barcelona over two legs in the CL semi final and the way they played in the Nou Camp in the second leg? Or his Chelsea against Liverpool when Gerrard slipped and United in the EL final and......etc. He wins games and that's good, that's the point right, but even the own fans of his teams, like us now, find little to excite and applaud generally? On Saturday evening I watched the game almost from behind a cushion. We were battered in the first half. All 11 Spurs players average positions were in our own half. We had two attcks from memory, scored from one and had a goal disallowed from the other (which ws admittedly a ppiece of sublime passing football). I loved the win but we can't watch Spurs playing like that just for the win for another 30-40 games. Can we?
It's an good question. Johan Cruyff once said Mourinho was a "results manager," not a football manager. I imagine Jose took that as a compliment. I guess the reality of that (though obviously not what Cruyff meant) is that you can only really judge by his results, which are very good right now.
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
It's an good question. Johan Cruyff once said Mourinho was a "results manager," not a football manager. I imagine Jose took that as a compliment. I guess the reality of that (though obviously not what Cruyff meant) is that you can only really judge by his results, which are very good right now.
Yes they are and in fairness always have been, where ever he has managed. His record is fantastic, probably the best in the world right now, however he was sacked by another culture club - Manchester United and that was after winning the League Cup, The Europa league and finishing second in the league. Do you think Levy would do the same and re-employ someone like Poch? Would we keep the players after those 'successes' ? I don't know but I doubt it very much - our profile would increase, sponsorship deals would be more valuable, we'd be back in the holy grail of Champions League, that would be all too much for Levy (and a large part of the fan base) to give away? For me , whilst I desperately want to win things and honestly the players we have deserve it, no single man is ever bigger than the club. Let's see how this unfolds......
 
skiathospurs

skiathospurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
It's an good question. Johan Cruyff once said Mourinho was a "results manager," not a football manager. I imagine Jose took that as a compliment. I guess the reality of that (though obviously not what Cruyff meant) is that you can only really judge by his results, which are very good right now.
Thing with being a results manager,it leaves no room for sentiment when results dont come.I guess Jose knows it cos when it starts going south,the sulky,petulant blame the world man appears.
I dont see the point in fans kicking Jose this week,what do we want?results,silky football,it doesnt happen every week.So I will take the win,top of the table,I dont have to nosh him off or stroke him,even sing his name.Was the same with Graham,IF he wins things with spurs no doubt even us sceptics will soften,but Graham won a league cup and I still hate him,what he stood for and the fact he worked for us in his life.Doesnt mean I couldnt learn to accept .even like mourinho,just the same as i wouldnt have been jose out if we were 3rd and lost saturday,I am not he is the messiah because we won and are top for a week.It will take time either way for a lot of us.
 
J.spurs

J.spurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
[
Thing with being a results manager,it leaves no room for sentiment when results dont come.I guess Jose knows it cos when it starts going south,the sulky,petulant blame the world man appears.
I dont see the point in fans kicking Jose this week,what do we want?results,silky football,it doesnt happen every week.So I will take the win,top of the table,I dont have to nosh him off or stroke him,even sing his name.Was the same with Graham,IF he wins things with spurs no doubt even us sceptics will soften,but Graham won a league cup and I still hate him,what he stood for and the fact he worked for us in his life.Doesnt mean I couldnt learn to accept .even like mourinho,just the same as i wouldnt have been jose out if we were 3rd and lost saturday,I am not he is the messiah because we won and are top for a week.It will take time either way for a lot of us.
Exactly. It is what it is, and I just still really try to ignore him. I've made my man-crush on Poch, and my dislike of Maureen, well-known over the years, but I kind of think we (led by the media) put too much emphasis on managers anyway. This transfer window, we finally addressed some gaping holes in the squad and our top players are--touch wood--healthy and performing at a very high level.

All that said, I definitely agree with the manager (really all of them) about the issues of fixture congestion, and IMO whether we make a serious title challenge has less to do with the Jose's tactics than with his ability to keep Kane, Son, Hojbjerg, etc fresh and hopefully healthy through rotation. Which I think is probably a tougher job than this masterclass tactical performance or whatever they're calling it against Pep.

Side note: I don't really have anything against Guardiola like some do--but it is a lot of fun to watch him lose.
 
skiathospurs

skiathospurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Side note: I don't really have anything against Guardiola like some do--but it is a lot of fun to watch him lose.
If jose/pep becomes like fergy/wenger means things have been going well.No doubt Jose has got under Pep`s skin recently since his return.
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
Side note: I don't really have anything against Guardiola like some do--but it is a lot of fun to watch him lose.
I know a few City fans that are also quick to criticise him. The new entitled ones mostly, but I also believe there are a fair few managers out there that could achieve as much as him with the same budget and opportunity. The bloke at RB Leipzig, Pochettino, Bielsa, The old Geezer at Bayern and Klopp have arguably achieved more. Pep changed football during his time as manager with Barcelona and since, but it or he probably hasn't been as successful as he should have been?
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
If jose/pep becomes like fergy/wenger means things have been going well.No doubt Jose has got under Pep`s skin recently since his return.
The Chelsea game this weekend vs Lampard is a biggie, we got duffed up twice last season, especially on the work-rate and desire, it was horrible to watch, twice and Son got sent off. I'm hoping, almost as much as beating Arsenal that we get our own back on Chelsea this season. The league Cup will help with the belief but the Premier League game is a bigger occasion. I really want to beat them and beat them well, tricky away from home but no crowd will help.
 
skiathospurs

skiathospurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
I know a few City fans that are also quick to criticise him. The new entitled ones mostly, but I also believe there are a fair few managers out there that could achieve as much as him with the same budget and opportunity. The bloke at RB Leipzig, Pochettino, Bielsa, The old Geezer at Bayern and Klopp have arguably achieved more. Pep changed football during his time as manager with Barcelona and since, but it or he probably hasn't been as successful as he should have been?
The same as I would level at Jose,easy to win things managing real/barca/bayern/or a club that can buy above their peers like city/chelsea.If Jose won a league with spurs it would be more of an achievment than winning CL with Inter.
Easy to play fantasy football with a fantasy budget,as for inventing tika taka football,yeah right having iniesta,xavi,messi try doing that with sissoko,eriksen and llorente,Viva El Jefe !!Not winning the CL with city is failure,not reaching the semi`s let alone a final is failure with that spend.
Cardy wearing,baked bean headed money spending fraud,is my verdict.
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
Ok, so here's the debate that some of us are having in bit's and pieces on other threads. I'm going to use Poch as 'the other alternative' but it could be many different managers. I'll also try and keep it brief.

In short i'm sure we're all delighted at being top of the league and relative success after 12 games. what I'm personally not delighted about is the way that we're achieving it. There's more than one way to win football matches, Mourinho uses one tactic, which we're now all painfully familiar with - and don't get me wrong there is a place for that type of football, against some opponents and sometimes during games. But the philosophy and culture at Spurs, the ideals that the club (bigger than any one person) has always had at it's core was to play entertaining football. No-one can argue that we're doing that, fact we're not. So as a lifelong fan I'm delighted at the success, disgusted at the method.

Using the Palace game as a reference, we started off for the first 30 mins playing attacking fluid football. Look at the reaction on the thread - how much everyone was enjoying the change and we went 1-0 up, deservedly so, even though the goal was lucky. At that point we stopped playing and coincidentally, the defence were having a poor game - Dier repeatedly giving the ball away and both full backs playing sloppy, until Aurier for the third time this season in an identical position, gave away the free kick that cost us the points. Then for the last 10 minutes we went for it again and their keeper pulled off a couple of great saves.

Why not go 1-0 up and keep playing positively? They would need to 'come out' leaving more space at the back and I would suggest that we would have scored another maybe two. if they got one, so what? Sitting back and defending gave them very little to worry about and they hit the post as well. It's a flawed tactic employed when not necessary (like it could be argued was necessary against City). Palace are not a top team, they had two/three threats on Sunday, Zaha, Eze and Benteke in the air. We have experienced International defenders, they should be able to deal with that threat comfortably. The game plan can be fairly laid at Mourinho's door.

I'm not going to go into the second half against Arsenal, fair enough (sort of) at 2-0 up against the Scum - but I watched only about 15 minutes of the second half, and I've never been that disinterested in my life. tactics against City again fair enough, and for the first half against Chelsea same. But don't forget the way we won there with Dele's goal.

The much bigger issue is letting Burnley, WBA, Brighton, Lask, Antwerp (twice),West Ham come at you. Soner or later even a poor team is going to score. Why let it happen in the first place?

I'm not sure if anyone remembers Mourinho's Inter Milan winning the CL, or his United winning the EL or his Chelsea at Liverpool when Gerrard slipped over. They are all winning performances but absolutely nothing to be proud of.

I loved that last season at WHL, the seasons at Wembley beating Madrid, Dortmund, Liverpool, United, Chelsea we dominated all of those teams with free flowing attacking football, including Vertonghen famously playing left wing against Dortmund. OK Poch, equally famously, didn't win anything. But he got me jumping off the sofa, buying a season ticket, going home and away when I could scrounge a ticket, both here and in Europe. I've still got one, but deferred it for a year, I'm not paying to watch my team put 10 men behind the ball against mid table teams and defending a 1-0 lead. What's to enjoy and be proud of.

So is there a winning alternative? Of course - play like Liverpool, RB Leipzig, Manchester City, (old) Barcelona, United Madrid, Paris, Bayern. If it's true and we indeed do have a team of high calibre Internationals, a couple of whom are 'world class' we wshould be able to play like that?

My last point is that Poch and other managers trust their whole squad of players and it's my belief that they coach them to be better. Mourinho doesn't, he destroys confidence, shackles natural creativity and ability, imposes his own small minded mentality on the group and has 'favourites' (as Hoddle did apparently). I hate this. Winks isn't the best player in the league, but he's useful, getting better and playing for his country, he also bleeds Spurs. Now he wasn't having the best game last Thursday, but the way he left the pitch spoke volumes for me.

I love Spurs, always will, but Mourinho's style Spurs is not for me, not game after game anyway......hopefully we'll win something, (almost) everyone will be happy and we can get back to playing attractive football again, Burkinshaw's Spurs, Venables Spurs, Poch's Spurs and win things in a way that we can all enjoy and be proud of.
 
skiathospurs

skiathospurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Ok, so here's the debate that some of us are having in bit's and pieces on other threads. I'm going to use Poch as 'the other alternative' but it could be many different managers. I'll also try and keep it brief.

In short i'm sure we're all delighted at being top of the league and relative success after 12 games. what I'm personally not delighted about is the way that we're achieving it. There's more than one way to win football matches, Mourinho uses one tactic, which we're now all painfully familiar with - and don't get me wrong there is a place for that type of football, against some opponents and sometimes during games. But the philosophy and culture at Spurs, the ideals that the club (bigger than any one person) has always had at it's core was to play entertaining football. No-one can argue that we're doing that, fact we're not. So as a lifelong fan I'm delighted at the success, disgusted at the method.

Using the Palace game as a reference, we started off for the first 30 mins playing attacking fluid football. Look at the reaction on the thread - how much everyone was enjoying the change and we went 1-0 up, deservedly so, even though the goal was lucky. At that point we stopped playing and coincidentally, the defence were having a poor game - Dier repeatedly giving the ball away and both full backs playing sloppy, until Aurier for the third time this season in an identical position, gave away the free kick that cost us the points. Then for the last 10 minutes we went for it again and their keeper pulled off a couple of great saves.

Why not go 1-0 up and keep playing positively? They would need to 'come out' leaving more space at the back and I would suggest that we would have scored another maybe two. if they got one, so what? Sitting back and defending gave them very little to worry about and they hit the post as well. It's a flawed tactic employed when not necessary (like it could be argued was necessary against City). Palace are not a top team, they had two/three threats on Sunday, Zaha, Eze and Benteke in the air. We have experienced International defenders, they should be able to deal with that threat comfortably. The game plan can be fairly laid at Mourinho's door.

I'm not going to go into the second half against Arsenal, fair enough (sort of) at 2-0 up against the Scum - but I watched only about 15 minutes of the second half, and I've never been that disinterested in my life. tactics against City again fair enough, and for the first half against Chelsea same. But don't forget the way we won there with Dele's goal.

The much bigger issue is letting Burnley, WBA, Brighton, Lask, Antwerp (twice),West Ham come at you. Soner or later even a poor team is going to score. Why let it happen in the first place?

I'm not sure if anyone remembers Mourinho's Inter Milan winning the CL, or his United winning the EL or his Chelsea at Liverpool when Gerrard slipped over. They are all winning performances but absolutely nothing to be proud of.

I loved that last season at WHL, the seasons at Wembley beating Madrid, Dortmund, Liverpool, United, Chelsea we dominated all of those teams with free flowing attacking football, including Vertonghen famously playing left wing against Dortmund. OK Poch, equally famously, didn't win anything. But he got me jumping off the sofa, buying a season ticket, going home and away when I could scrounge a ticket, both here and in Europe. I've still got one, but deferred it for a year, I'm not paying to watch my team put 10 men behind the ball against mid table teams and defending a 1-0 lead. What's to enjoy and be proud of.

So is there a winning alternative? Of course - play like Liverpool, RB Leipzig, Manchester City, (old) Barcelona, United Madrid, Paris, Bayern. If it's true and we indeed do have a team of high calibre Internationals, a couple of whom are 'world class' we wshould be able to play like that?

My last point is that Poch and other managers trust their whole squad of players and it's my belief that they coach them to be better. Mourinho doesn't, he destroys confidence, shackles natural creativity and ability, imposes his own small minded mentality on the group and has 'favourites' (as Hoddle did apparently). I hate this. Winks isn't the best player in the league, but he's useful, getting better and playing for his country, he also bleeds Spurs. Now he wasn't having the best game last Thursday, but the way he left the pitch spoke volumes for me.

I love Spurs, always will, but Mourinho's style Spurs is not for me, not game after game anyway......hopefully we'll win something, (almost) everyone will be happy and we can get back to playing attractive football again, Burkinshaw's Spurs, Venables Spurs, Poch's Spurs and win things in a way that we can all enjoy and be proud of.
I cant disagree,you know me mate,at what point (or how many trophies) would we say its worth it?.Its too simplistic to say no trophy is worth it,end of the day if we won a league and a cup double come May,our reaction will be different (or tempered).
I guess I am saying putting up with this is 100% conditional on winning things,not top 4,not semi-finals,proper honours to add to the 2 leagues,2 uefa cups 1 cup winners cup,8 fa cups,4 league cups.That is why I am tolerant at present and the only reason.If we do win stuff this year,next year I wont tolerate such horrible football,because we should have found the missing attacking/creative 10+ goal midfielder by then,I reckon it would take about half a dozen trophies for me to consider Jose anything like "a spur".
Tough gig for him,but thats the cost his personality/history brings for me.
 
BrooklynYid

BrooklynYid

Player in Training.
He's got to be more flexible. If we kept our foot on the gas we would have won by 3. Place was willing to play and we should have taken advantage of that. Sitting back was poor strategy in this match. I think the real footballing issue is that Mourinho really is a complete cunt. A winner, but cunt nonetheless.
 
skiathospurs

skiathospurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
errmmm we've got one of those, he's not getting picked.
lets not broaden the thread !!Whatever the reason. For me ndobby is ok,but he is just a dembele V2.0,doesnt score enough and any creativity is conditional on him doing a 360 turn and going past a player,we need a proper passer of the ball IMO.As for dele,the space he is best in is taken up by son or bergwjn/moura or he is too giggly girlish and not nasty enough for Jose??I feel the pain but think he is offski.
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
lets not broaden the thread !!Whatever the reason. For me ndobby is ok,but he is just a dembele V2.0,doesnt score enough and any creativity is conditional on him doing a 360 turn and going past a player,we need a proper passer of the ball IMO.As for dele,the space he is best in is taken up by son or bergwjn/moura or he is too giggly girlish and not nasty enough for Jose??I feel the pain but think he is offski.
Fair enough, what about the 10+ goal, passing machine that went to Inter? get him back? could play for the full 90 minutes and we've now got other people to take corners.
(I'm being a nuisance on purpose but you see the point?)
 
skiathospurs

skiathospurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Fair enough, what about the 10+ goal, passing machine that went to Inter? get him back? could play for the full 90 minutes and we've now got other people to take corners.
(I'm being a nuisance on purpose but you see the point?)
i do,we are missing a proper passer,but does that fit in to the style wanted??
 
Don Diaz

Don Diaz

Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
i do,we are missing a proper passer,but does that fit in to the style wanted??
Well Maureen played him regularly before he was sold. But truthfully I don't know. Eriksens stats used to be that he ran as far if not further than most on the pitch, so that would get him a tick, tackling not so much. He won't be back, but fits the brief (mostly) as would Bale if he gets fit? Otherwise harry will have to play in two positions at once....even he can't do that.
 
skiathospurs

skiathospurs

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Well Maureen played him regularly before he was sold. But truthfully I don't know. Eriksens stats used to be that he ran as far if not further than most on the pitch, so that would get him a tick, tackling not so much. He won't be back, but fits the brief (mostly) as would Bale if he gets fit? Otherwise harry will have to play in two positions at once....even he can't do that.
eriksen of 4 years ago is exactly the missing part of this team.
 
Style And Glory

Style And Glory

Player in Training.
I will try to keep this short, just like Mr Diaz.

We all get what you so succinctly said Donnie & most of us probably empathize with you. I know I do.

O Jogo Bonito - The Beautiful Game
It's not called the "Defensively Resolute & Win At All Cost Game".

So I ask, what would a purist or a neutral or someone who was completely unfamiliar with the game wish to see? What would captivate them? because there are various ways to play be it tactically &/or stylistically. First & foremost, it's a game & games are meant to be fun. Fun means that it is entertaining. So what would entertain even a neutral? Would it be the low block with 10-11 men defending behind the ball? There's merit in that but I doubt it would ignite interest in a neutral or newcomer to the game (other than those cerebral, professorial types).
There's gotta be more.

For me it's about ideals & ethos. A mix of athleticism, virtuosity, creativity, strategy & camaraderie along with an aesthetic dimension which creates its own fantastic spectacle THAT CAN BE EXPRESSED. When it is played with freedom & at the highest level, it's essentially an art. Art should have a magnetic component. Something that draws you in, enthralls & doesn't relinquish its hold. Each match offers the possibility of immense inventiveness, unpredictability & excitement.

Yet the game has evolved a great deal over the years & in many respects it has unfortunately spiraled downward into one that is baseline results oriented. So many shackled players & negated ingredients diminish its attractiveness. Fortunately for many of us, there are those beacons of hope (players/managers/owners) that preach a more expansive approach to the game which incorporates the skill, form & flair on a wider basis.

In terms of where we are now with Mourinho, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. I believe him when he says he has changed & reassessed his philosophy. We've seen glimpses of Spurs playing more progressively. Being the protagonist. Playing on the front foot. Players express themselves. I feel that once that winning mentality & steel is instilled in the team, he will re-visit this approach. Just jumped the gun a bit vs Wham. The team needs a bit more time. There's plenty of quality within the team &, surprisingly to me, Jose has also made some astute acquisitions without having to break the bank. Honestly, I didn't think it was possible anymore with him given what he was accustomed to.

FWIW, Tottenham is not my "hometown" team so no connection there. And there are far more clubs that are much easier to support simply based of their perennial success. But I find Spurs & it's supporters are unique. I wasn't around during glory years of Sir Nick. Though I was when Ossie & Ricky came along with a young Glenn Hoddle in the late 70's. As with many, it was their style of play (particularly Hoddle's) that attracted me & deeply resonated. It was fun & exciting to watch. I then read up on the team history which confirmed I had made the right choice. Many like-minded here. Ideals & ethos & all of the above (& beyond).

Short enough. lol
 
Dorset

Dorset

The Voice Of Reason
Founding Member
After falling asleep in yesterday's game I was awake really early this morning so I had a butchers at the Fighting Cock - it's kicking off there nicely and one of my old mates from the old place is particularly grumpy. The usual win at any costs, don't care about the football just the results, Jose is the messiah bollocks.

One good point made, which I disagree with, was that Mourinho's anti-football is only ever acceptable when he is winning. When he serving up this shite and losing then it is exponentially worse. The Ravi Shankar who said he would accept this football for ever as long as there were trophies in the cabinet is probably one of them garlic eating, coffee drinking huge vagina types.

We are so much nicer here eh? I can listen to the total bullshit you cunts talk about and not call you the wankers I know for a fact you are, because you are all Reg Varny Sankars.
 
NiceOneCyril

NiceOneCyril

Player in Training.
After thinking that this year had been about as shitty as it could possibly be, somehow Mourinho has managed to spoil Christmas as well. But the worst thing of all is knowing that only Daniel Levy can save us from this hell.
 
Style And Glory

Style And Glory

Player in Training.
I'm exhausted jumping back & forth over the "Mourinho In / Out Fence".
Win well against Stoke & I can rest on one side over Christmas.
 
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