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he is definitely winning me over.
the first month i was pretty over him. now, i am over the moon with him
the first month i was pretty over him. now, i am over the moon with him
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Do you remember Mourinho's Inter Milan team beating (Pep's) Barcelona over two legs in the CL semi final and the way they played in the Nou Camp in the second leg? Or his Chelsea against Liverpool when Gerrard slipped and United in the EL final and......etc. He wins games and that's good, that's the point right, but even the own fans of his teams, like us now, find little to excite and applaud generally? On Saturday evening I watched the game almost from behind a cushion. We were battered in the first half. All 11 Spurs players average positions were in our own half. We had two attcks from memory, scored from one and had a goal disallowed from the other (which ws admittedly a ppiece of sublime passing football). I loved the win but we can't watch Spurs playing like that just for the win for another 30-40 games. Can we?he is definitely winning me over.
the first month i was pretty over him. now, i am over the moon with him
It's an good question. Johan Cruyff once said Mourinho was a "results manager," not a football manager. I imagine Jose took that as a compliment. I guess the reality of that (though obviously not what Cruyff meant) is that you can only really judge by his results, which are very good right now.Do you remember Mourinho's Inter Milan team beating (Pep's) Barcelona over two legs in the CL semi final and the way they played in the Nou Camp in the second leg? Or his Chelsea against Liverpool when Gerrard slipped and United in the EL final and......etc. He wins games and that's good, that's the point right, but even the own fans of his teams, like us now, find little to excite and applaud generally? On Saturday evening I watched the game almost from behind a cushion. We were battered in the first half. All 11 Spurs players average positions were in our own half. We had two attcks from memory, scored from one and had a goal disallowed from the other (which ws admittedly a ppiece of sublime passing football). I loved the win but we can't watch Spurs playing like that just for the win for another 30-40 games. Can we?
Yes they are and in fairness always have been, where ever he has managed. His record is fantastic, probably the best in the world right now, however he was sacked by another culture club - Manchester United and that was after winning the League Cup, The Europa league and finishing second in the league. Do you think Levy would do the same and re-employ someone like Poch? Would we keep the players after those 'successes' ? I don't know but I doubt it very much - our profile would increase, sponsorship deals would be more valuable, we'd be back in the holy grail of Champions League, that would be all too much for Levy (and a large part of the fan base) to give away? For me , whilst I desperately want to win things and honestly the players we have deserve it, no single man is ever bigger than the club. Let's see how this unfolds......It's an good question. Johan Cruyff once said Mourinho was a "results manager," not a football manager. I imagine Jose took that as a compliment. I guess the reality of that (though obviously not what Cruyff meant) is that you can only really judge by his results, which are very good right now.
Thing with being a results manager,it leaves no room for sentiment when results dont come.I guess Jose knows it cos when it starts going south,the sulky,petulant blame the world man appears.It's an good question. Johan Cruyff once said Mourinho was a "results manager," not a football manager. I imagine Jose took that as a compliment. I guess the reality of that (though obviously not what Cruyff meant) is that you can only really judge by his results, which are very good right now.
Exactly. It is what it is, and I just still really try to ignore him. I've made my man-crush on Poch, and my dislike of Maureen, well-known over the years, but I kind of think we (led by the media) put too much emphasis on managers anyway. This transfer window, we finally addressed some gaping holes in the squad and our top players are--touch wood--healthy and performing at a very high level.Thing with being a results manager,it leaves no room for sentiment when results dont come.I guess Jose knows it cos when it starts going south,the sulky,petulant blame the world man appears.
I dont see the point in fans kicking Jose this week,what do we want?results,silky football,it doesnt happen every week.So I will take the win,top of the table,I dont have to nosh him off or stroke him,even sing his name.Was the same with Graham,IF he wins things with spurs no doubt even us sceptics will soften,but Graham won a league cup and I still hate him,what he stood for and the fact he worked for us in his life.Doesnt mean I couldnt learn to accept .even like mourinho,just the same as i wouldnt have been jose out if we were 3rd and lost saturday,I am not he is the messiah because we won and are top for a week.It will take time either way for a lot of us.
If jose/pep becomes like fergy/wenger means things have been going well.No doubt Jose has got under Pep`s skin recently since his return.Side note: I don't really have anything against Guardiola like some do--but it is a lot of fun to watch him lose.
I know a few City fans that are also quick to criticise him. The new entitled ones mostly, but I also believe there are a fair few managers out there that could achieve as much as him with the same budget and opportunity. The bloke at RB Leipzig, Pochettino, Bielsa, The old Geezer at Bayern and Klopp have arguably achieved more. Pep changed football during his time as manager with Barcelona and since, but it or he probably hasn't been as successful as he should have been?Side note: I don't really have anything against Guardiola like some do--but it is a lot of fun to watch him lose.
The Chelsea game this weekend vs Lampard is a biggie, we got duffed up twice last season, especially on the work-rate and desire, it was horrible to watch, twice and Son got sent off. I'm hoping, almost as much as beating Arsenal that we get our own back on Chelsea this season. The league Cup will help with the belief but the Premier League game is a bigger occasion. I really want to beat them and beat them well, tricky away from home but no crowd will help.If jose/pep becomes like fergy/wenger means things have been going well.No doubt Jose has got under Pep`s skin recently since his return.
The same as I would level at Jose,easy to win things managing real/barca/bayern/or a club that can buy above their peers like city/chelsea.If Jose won a league with spurs it would be more of an achievment than winning CL with Inter.I know a few City fans that are also quick to criticise him. The new entitled ones mostly, but I also believe there are a fair few managers out there that could achieve as much as him with the same budget and opportunity. The bloke at RB Leipzig, Pochettino, Bielsa, The old Geezer at Bayern and Klopp have arguably achieved more. Pep changed football during his time as manager with Barcelona and since, but it or he probably hasn't been as successful as he should have been?
I cant disagree,you know me mate,at what point (or how many trophies) would we say its worth it?.Its too simplistic to say no trophy is worth it,end of the day if we won a league and a cup double come May,our reaction will be different (or tempered).Ok, so here's the debate that some of us are having in bit's and pieces on other threads. I'm going to use Poch as 'the other alternative' but it could be many different managers. I'll also try and keep it brief.
In short i'm sure we're all delighted at being top of the league and relative success after 12 games. what I'm personally not delighted about is the way that we're achieving it. There's more than one way to win football matches, Mourinho uses one tactic, which we're now all painfully familiar with - and don't get me wrong there is a place for that type of football, against some opponents and sometimes during games. But the philosophy and culture at Spurs, the ideals that the club (bigger than any one person) has always had at it's core was to play entertaining football. No-one can argue that we're doing that, fact we're not. So as a lifelong fan I'm delighted at the success, disgusted at the method.
Using the Palace game as a reference, we started off for the first 30 mins playing attacking fluid football. Look at the reaction on the thread - how much everyone was enjoying the change and we went 1-0 up, deservedly so, even though the goal was lucky. At that point we stopped playing and coincidentally, the defence were having a poor game - Dier repeatedly giving the ball away and both full backs playing sloppy, until Aurier for the third time this season in an identical position, gave away the free kick that cost us the points. Then for the last 10 minutes we went for it again and their keeper pulled off a couple of great saves.
Why not go 1-0 up and keep playing positively? They would need to 'come out' leaving more space at the back and I would suggest that we would have scored another maybe two. if they got one, so what? Sitting back and defending gave them very little to worry about and they hit the post as well. It's a flawed tactic employed when not necessary (like it could be argued was necessary against City). Palace are not a top team, they had two/three threats on Sunday, Zaha, Eze and Benteke in the air. We have experienced International defenders, they should be able to deal with that threat comfortably. The game plan can be fairly laid at Mourinho's door.
I'm not going to go into the second half against Arsenal, fair enough (sort of) at 2-0 up against the Scum - but I watched only about 15 minutes of the second half, and I've never been that disinterested in my life. tactics against City again fair enough, and for the first half against Chelsea same. But don't forget the way we won there with Dele's goal.
The much bigger issue is letting Burnley, WBA, Brighton, Lask, Antwerp (twice),West Ham come at you. Soner or later even a poor team is going to score. Why let it happen in the first place?
I'm not sure if anyone remembers Mourinho's Inter Milan winning the CL, or his United winning the EL or his Chelsea at Liverpool when Gerrard slipped over. They are all winning performances but absolutely nothing to be proud of.
I loved that last season at WHL, the seasons at Wembley beating Madrid, Dortmund, Liverpool, United, Chelsea we dominated all of those teams with free flowing attacking football, including Vertonghen famously playing left wing against Dortmund. OK Poch, equally famously, didn't win anything. But he got me jumping off the sofa, buying a season ticket, going home and away when I could scrounge a ticket, both here and in Europe. I've still got one, but deferred it for a year, I'm not paying to watch my team put 10 men behind the ball against mid table teams and defending a 1-0 lead. What's to enjoy and be proud of.
So is there a winning alternative? Of course - play like Liverpool, RB Leipzig, Manchester City, (old) Barcelona, United Madrid, Paris, Bayern. If it's true and we indeed do have a team of high calibre Internationals, a couple of whom are 'world class' we wshould be able to play like that?
My last point is that Poch and other managers trust their whole squad of players and it's my belief that they coach them to be better. Mourinho doesn't, he destroys confidence, shackles natural creativity and ability, imposes his own small minded mentality on the group and has 'favourites' (as Hoddle did apparently). I hate this. Winks isn't the best player in the league, but he's useful, getting better and playing for his country, he also bleeds Spurs. Now he wasn't having the best game last Thursday, but the way he left the pitch spoke volumes for me.
I love Spurs, always will, but Mourinho's style Spurs is not for me, not game after game anyway......hopefully we'll win something, (almost) everyone will be happy and we can get back to playing attractive football again, Burkinshaw's Spurs, Venables Spurs, Poch's Spurs and win things in a way that we can all enjoy and be proud of.
errmmm we've got one of those, he's not getting picked.we should have found the missing attacking/creative 10+ goal midfielder by then
lets not broaden the thread !!Whatever the reason. For me ndobby is ok,but he is just a dembele V2.0,doesnt score enough and any creativity is conditional on him doing a 360 turn and going past a player,we need a proper passer of the ball IMO.As for dele,the space he is best in is taken up by son or bergwjn/moura or he is too giggly girlish and not nasty enough for Jose??I feel the pain but think he is offski.errmmm we've got one of those, he's not getting picked.
Fair enough, what about the 10+ goal, passing machine that went to Inter? get him back? could play for the full 90 minutes and we've now got other people to take corners.lets not broaden the thread !!Whatever the reason. For me ndobby is ok,but he is just a dembele V2.0,doesnt score enough and any creativity is conditional on him doing a 360 turn and going past a player,we need a proper passer of the ball IMO.As for dele,the space he is best in is taken up by son or bergwjn/moura or he is too giggly girlish and not nasty enough for Jose??I feel the pain but think he is offski.
i do,we are missing a proper passer,but does that fit in to the style wanted??Fair enough, what about the 10+ goal, passing machine that went to Inter? get him back? could play for the full 90 minutes and we've now got other people to take corners.
(I'm being a nuisance on purpose but you see the point?)
Well Maureen played him regularly before he was sold. But truthfully I don't know. Eriksens stats used to be that he ran as far if not further than most on the pitch, so that would get him a tick, tackling not so much. He won't be back, but fits the brief (mostly) as would Bale if he gets fit? Otherwise harry will have to play in two positions at once....even he can't do that.i do,we are missing a proper passer,but does that fit in to the style wanted??
eriksen of 4 years ago is exactly the missing part of this team.Well Maureen played him regularly before he was sold. But truthfully I don't know. Eriksens stats used to be that he ran as far if not further than most on the pitch, so that would get him a tick, tackling not so much. He won't be back, but fits the brief (mostly) as would Bale if he gets fit? Otherwise harry will have to play in two positions at once....even he can't do that.
Get a room........
Aaaaaaaaand if we don't....I'm exhausted jumping back & forth over the "Mourinho In / Out Fence".
Win well against Stoke & I can rest on one side over Christmas.