Finchbee
Well-Known Member
I just dont want to see Eriksen wear a spurs shirt again
I just dont want to see Eriksen wear a spurs shirt again
Don Diaz
Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
waaaaay too early for that, we don't know what's happened - maybe just a loss of form.he won so many games for us as recently as last year.
Yid
Moderator
Founding Member
Tbh I kinda agree... if he is being a cunt for any reason then fuck him off to the ressies.
If it's cool and Poch is cool then I'm cool.... as long as he doesn't play like a fuckin drip.
If it's cool and Poch is cool then I'm cool.... as long as he doesn't play like a fuckin drip.
skiathospurs
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
This is taken from the new Clive Allen autobiography (looks a good read),and this is what Poch has to deal with..
Don Diaz
Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
This by Guillem Balague, author of Pochettino's book and a man who knows him well. It's on the BBC sport website.
Last year's Champions League campaign hid a lot of cracks in Tottenham's season; this year's has only served to expose them.
Effectively what we are seeing is the irrefutable decay of a squad that should have been recycled, reinvigorated, revitalised, a squad that has been allowed to drift into the footballing crisis it now finds itself in. Why a crisis? Because this team, judging by results, is not moving forward - they are at best standing still and at worst going backwards.
It is a situation that has occurred because different elements of the club have had different views on the strategy and pace needed to move forward. It has meant a lack of decisiveness in the transfer market and, by the time decisions on players have been made, it has often not been possible to implement the moves.
The Pochettino-Levy dynamic
On the one hand you have Mauricio Pochettino, a coach who wants to make his team as good as it can be and to continue winning. On the other you have Daniel Levy, the chairman and a man who analyses the football world inhabited by the top clubs in a different way.
In a nutshell, in Pochettino Spurs have a coach who will look at and evaluate players on the basis of what they can do for the team, while also having one eye on the business. Levy, however, is more likely to view them in terms of what they can do for the business, while having one eye on the football.
In situations such as this, the final decisions will always lie with the chairman.
This has led to scenarios where players have had their contracts renewed with a view to maximising their marketability - selling them on - rather than on the basis of what they might contribute to the team on the field. Or of players signed who were not necessarily what the team needed but were considered a good market bargain.
But nothing is as black and white as it seems. The relationship between the two key men in the club has certainly not broken down.
"People might say that the relationship with the chairman has got worse, but that is not the case," said Pochettino, speaking at a conference in Qatar. "What is important is to maintain the relationship and respect each other. We both need to know how to work our philosophy to be close together.
"In difficult times the manager also has to be up for the fight. I've joked a bit about our big defeats, but we are hurt. It is the time to be genuinely together and to turn things around. Let's put that in our heads and recover."
That is the same message spread out within the club. It is important that everyone, from the chairman to the lowest-profile employee, backs the team.
It is a team, after all, which can beat anyone when on form.
The ultimate test of Pochettino's management
There is no denying Tottenham's heroic Champions League campaign last season - ultimately losing in the final to Liverpool - hid their shortcomings.
The stats make for painful perusal. Spurs have lost 19 of their past 41 games in all competitions. Bayern Munich's brutal efficiency in beating them 7-2 on 1 October and Brighton's energy four days later in a 3-0 victory exposed once and for all the yawning cracks that Pochettino and his team have been trying to paper over for the past nine and a half months.
The news conference that followed the Bayern defeat was a calculated reaction from the coach to a game which clearly highlighted that this is undoubtedly a crisis. What is needed now is a calm head and concentration on trying to make sure things do not get even worse. If that means using the veterans - the usual players, some of whom know that in normal circumstances they would not be at the club right now - so be it.
What Pochettino does now and how he manages to create the minimum fallout from this situation will very probably define him as a manager. It will be the yardstick by which his achievements are measured when judgments are being made in 10 years' time. A footballing version of the old question: "What did you do in the war, Daddy?"
Did he blame the club because of a lack of money and new players? Did he try to play it down by reminding everyone that he had said all along this was going to be a rollercoaster ride? If - or more likely, when - he leaves, he will want to do so comfortable in the knowledge he played the very best hand with the cards he was dealt. Any future top-flight employers would demand nothing less from him.
Pochettino has never asked the club for players or for money. What he has done - and he has been saying this for the past two years - is make it clear he needs to start a new chapter.
The club themselves feel the refresh has begun already. Pochettino's coaches identified problems a long time ago and they were not addressed with the pace that was demanded, but the club believe the next phase of the Spurs project is well under way. Some fringe players have been sold or will be sold in January and next summer. New players have arrived recently.
It is hard to question Levy, who believes he has always done what is in the club's very best interests. You only need to walk into the gleaming new showpiece stadium to realise that in many ways he has more than fulfilled his brief to Tottenham's owners.
And whatever the verdict on his transfer dealings, there have been numerous occasions when departures have been agreed by the manager and the club, only for a deal to prove impossible. In fact, in almost all the cases where a move from the squad was agreed, no teams showed interest or eventually the player decided not to move to those clubs making offers.
Those situations create confusion. It has been reported that Danny Rose, Toby Alderweireld and Jan Vertonghen searched for - or had the chance of - a departure. They remain at the club. Christian Eriksen has been offered a new contract but he needs a new challenge and prefers a move to La Liga, but neither Barcelona nor Real Madrid have shown enough interest to take him away.
Eriksen, 27, joined Spurs for £11.5m from Ajax in August 2013 at the age of 21
While off-field strategy has been a factor, there have also been on-field errors - by players and by the manager, as they would admit themselves. But the club also understand that injuries have not helped. Now everybody is back in training.
"The team has lost confidence and we have to work to recover it," Pochettino admits. "We talk to players, we tell them that we lost because of all of our mistakes, but we have to forget about them. Nobody can hide, we have to share responsibility."
Part of that responsibility is to work out why there has been such a downturn in results. There is a school of thought that this is a team which runs less than it used to and as a consequence exerts less pressure on the ball than previously. Maybe, but why?
In his first years the system used most often was 3-4-3 or a 4-4-2 with offensive full-backs and mobile forwards, but it suddenly became clear to Pochettino and his team last season that their squad possessed an abundance of defensive players and so they began to play five at the back. That stops that pressure high up the pitch as the number of players up front is reduced.
The players in the squad are also older and, frankly, many of them simply do not have the 'legs' they had three or four years ago. The youthfulness and vigour of the side when Pochettino first arrived, if not totally a thing of the past, has diminished. It is also worth noting that it is considered easier to play a high-pressure game on the smaller White Hart Lane surface they used to call home, compared to the longer and slightly wider pitches of Wembley and the new stadium.
What now for Pochettino?
The easy thing for Pochettino to do would be to clear his desk and wave an emotional goodbye to north London. He considered that during the summer and, had he left, would have had nothing to apologise for. He has taken Spurs and its fans into a land they could only have dreamed of and has done it by building a team that has played some of the most exhilarating football seen anywhere in the world.
But that is not where his mind is now.
In Qatar, Pochettino added: "We have to recover the emotional level… It is very difficult to control emotions, to go from playing the Champions League final and a few months later be in the situation we are in. It is in our hands to fight it off, to change dynamics. This is how this sport works. It is not a drama. There are much worse dramas in life and we have to understand that."
A four-year contractual commitment on both sides will almost certainly prevent any clean break from taking place and Pochettino also feels a loyalty towards the club. When Real Madrid came calling for him last spring and approached Levy directly, the Argentine was the first to state he would not go against the wishes of his employers.
The worst-case scenario is that things go from bad to worse, especially if Pochettino decides it's time to leave only to find he is faced with the task of dealing with an agreement that will probably stipulate where he can or cannot go in the immediate future.
Pochettino, who joined Spurs in May 2014, signed a new five-year contract in 2018
He is not in the position where he could - or would want to - "do a Mourinho", namely creating a situation so untenable at a club that showing you the door with a fat cheque and no handcuff clauses about your future suddenly becomes the only sensible option.
And if Pochettino does go, which big name, knowing what they know, is going to be prepared to grasp this particular nettle?
It will mean Spurs will have to go for a young, ambitious type of manager, someone with energy and enthusiasm, ready and willing to fight to change the situation. Is there anyone out there who would be up to the task? Put another way, where can Levy find another Pochettino?
I am told that the constant stories being published that players are unhappy are not totally or all true, but discontent exists. The footballers are receiving more analysis than ever and experience different types of training, but the main problem, as is usual in these moments of difficulties, is that everyone is looking for a scapegoat. In truth, everyone and every level at the club must take some share of the responsibility.
There is a natural frustration with what is happening, what has happened, and probably most of all with what should have happened. The club believe a positive turnaround in fortunes is inevitable and that Pochettino will soon start maximising his team's potential once again. It is, looking at the bigger picture, the logical approach.
Only time will tell if the club continue making changes at the right pace to stop the rot, if Pochettino has the ingredients to keep competing at the top and if he is able to revitalise and re-energise his squad to write the next chapter.
Last year's Champions League campaign hid a lot of cracks in Tottenham's season; this year's has only served to expose them.
Effectively what we are seeing is the irrefutable decay of a squad that should have been recycled, reinvigorated, revitalised, a squad that has been allowed to drift into the footballing crisis it now finds itself in. Why a crisis? Because this team, judging by results, is not moving forward - they are at best standing still and at worst going backwards.
It is a situation that has occurred because different elements of the club have had different views on the strategy and pace needed to move forward. It has meant a lack of decisiveness in the transfer market and, by the time decisions on players have been made, it has often not been possible to implement the moves.
The Pochettino-Levy dynamic
On the one hand you have Mauricio Pochettino, a coach who wants to make his team as good as it can be and to continue winning. On the other you have Daniel Levy, the chairman and a man who analyses the football world inhabited by the top clubs in a different way.
In a nutshell, in Pochettino Spurs have a coach who will look at and evaluate players on the basis of what they can do for the team, while also having one eye on the business. Levy, however, is more likely to view them in terms of what they can do for the business, while having one eye on the football.
In situations such as this, the final decisions will always lie with the chairman.
This has led to scenarios where players have had their contracts renewed with a view to maximising their marketability - selling them on - rather than on the basis of what they might contribute to the team on the field. Or of players signed who were not necessarily what the team needed but were considered a good market bargain.
But nothing is as black and white as it seems. The relationship between the two key men in the club has certainly not broken down.
"People might say that the relationship with the chairman has got worse, but that is not the case," said Pochettino, speaking at a conference in Qatar. "What is important is to maintain the relationship and respect each other. We both need to know how to work our philosophy to be close together.
"In difficult times the manager also has to be up for the fight. I've joked a bit about our big defeats, but we are hurt. It is the time to be genuinely together and to turn things around. Let's put that in our heads and recover."
That is the same message spread out within the club. It is important that everyone, from the chairman to the lowest-profile employee, backs the team.
It is a team, after all, which can beat anyone when on form.
The ultimate test of Pochettino's management
There is no denying Tottenham's heroic Champions League campaign last season - ultimately losing in the final to Liverpool - hid their shortcomings.
The stats make for painful perusal. Spurs have lost 19 of their past 41 games in all competitions. Bayern Munich's brutal efficiency in beating them 7-2 on 1 October and Brighton's energy four days later in a 3-0 victory exposed once and for all the yawning cracks that Pochettino and his team have been trying to paper over for the past nine and a half months.
The news conference that followed the Bayern defeat was a calculated reaction from the coach to a game which clearly highlighted that this is undoubtedly a crisis. What is needed now is a calm head and concentration on trying to make sure things do not get even worse. If that means using the veterans - the usual players, some of whom know that in normal circumstances they would not be at the club right now - so be it.
What Pochettino does now and how he manages to create the minimum fallout from this situation will very probably define him as a manager. It will be the yardstick by which his achievements are measured when judgments are being made in 10 years' time. A footballing version of the old question: "What did you do in the war, Daddy?"
Did he blame the club because of a lack of money and new players? Did he try to play it down by reminding everyone that he had said all along this was going to be a rollercoaster ride? If - or more likely, when - he leaves, he will want to do so comfortable in the knowledge he played the very best hand with the cards he was dealt. Any future top-flight employers would demand nothing less from him.
Pochettino has never asked the club for players or for money. What he has done - and he has been saying this for the past two years - is make it clear he needs to start a new chapter.
The club themselves feel the refresh has begun already. Pochettino's coaches identified problems a long time ago and they were not addressed with the pace that was demanded, but the club believe the next phase of the Spurs project is well under way. Some fringe players have been sold or will be sold in January and next summer. New players have arrived recently.
It is hard to question Levy, who believes he has always done what is in the club's very best interests. You only need to walk into the gleaming new showpiece stadium to realise that in many ways he has more than fulfilled his brief to Tottenham's owners.
And whatever the verdict on his transfer dealings, there have been numerous occasions when departures have been agreed by the manager and the club, only for a deal to prove impossible. In fact, in almost all the cases where a move from the squad was agreed, no teams showed interest or eventually the player decided not to move to those clubs making offers.
Those situations create confusion. It has been reported that Danny Rose, Toby Alderweireld and Jan Vertonghen searched for - or had the chance of - a departure. They remain at the club. Christian Eriksen has been offered a new contract but he needs a new challenge and prefers a move to La Liga, but neither Barcelona nor Real Madrid have shown enough interest to take him away.
Eriksen, 27, joined Spurs for £11.5m from Ajax in August 2013 at the age of 21
While off-field strategy has been a factor, there have also been on-field errors - by players and by the manager, as they would admit themselves. But the club also understand that injuries have not helped. Now everybody is back in training.
"The team has lost confidence and we have to work to recover it," Pochettino admits. "We talk to players, we tell them that we lost because of all of our mistakes, but we have to forget about them. Nobody can hide, we have to share responsibility."
Part of that responsibility is to work out why there has been such a downturn in results. There is a school of thought that this is a team which runs less than it used to and as a consequence exerts less pressure on the ball than previously. Maybe, but why?
In his first years the system used most often was 3-4-3 or a 4-4-2 with offensive full-backs and mobile forwards, but it suddenly became clear to Pochettino and his team last season that their squad possessed an abundance of defensive players and so they began to play five at the back. That stops that pressure high up the pitch as the number of players up front is reduced.
The players in the squad are also older and, frankly, many of them simply do not have the 'legs' they had three or four years ago. The youthfulness and vigour of the side when Pochettino first arrived, if not totally a thing of the past, has diminished. It is also worth noting that it is considered easier to play a high-pressure game on the smaller White Hart Lane surface they used to call home, compared to the longer and slightly wider pitches of Wembley and the new stadium.
What now for Pochettino?
The easy thing for Pochettino to do would be to clear his desk and wave an emotional goodbye to north London. He considered that during the summer and, had he left, would have had nothing to apologise for. He has taken Spurs and its fans into a land they could only have dreamed of and has done it by building a team that has played some of the most exhilarating football seen anywhere in the world.
But that is not where his mind is now.
In Qatar, Pochettino added: "We have to recover the emotional level… It is very difficult to control emotions, to go from playing the Champions League final and a few months later be in the situation we are in. It is in our hands to fight it off, to change dynamics. This is how this sport works. It is not a drama. There are much worse dramas in life and we have to understand that."
A four-year contractual commitment on both sides will almost certainly prevent any clean break from taking place and Pochettino also feels a loyalty towards the club. When Real Madrid came calling for him last spring and approached Levy directly, the Argentine was the first to state he would not go against the wishes of his employers.
The worst-case scenario is that things go from bad to worse, especially if Pochettino decides it's time to leave only to find he is faced with the task of dealing with an agreement that will probably stipulate where he can or cannot go in the immediate future.
Pochettino, who joined Spurs in May 2014, signed a new five-year contract in 2018
He is not in the position where he could - or would want to - "do a Mourinho", namely creating a situation so untenable at a club that showing you the door with a fat cheque and no handcuff clauses about your future suddenly becomes the only sensible option.
And if Pochettino does go, which big name, knowing what they know, is going to be prepared to grasp this particular nettle?
It will mean Spurs will have to go for a young, ambitious type of manager, someone with energy and enthusiasm, ready and willing to fight to change the situation. Is there anyone out there who would be up to the task? Put another way, where can Levy find another Pochettino?
I am told that the constant stories being published that players are unhappy are not totally or all true, but discontent exists. The footballers are receiving more analysis than ever and experience different types of training, but the main problem, as is usual in these moments of difficulties, is that everyone is looking for a scapegoat. In truth, everyone and every level at the club must take some share of the responsibility.
There is a natural frustration with what is happening, what has happened, and probably most of all with what should have happened. The club believe a positive turnaround in fortunes is inevitable and that Pochettino will soon start maximising his team's potential once again. It is, looking at the bigger picture, the logical approach.
Only time will tell if the club continue making changes at the right pace to stop the rot, if Pochettino has the ingredients to keep competing at the top and if he is able to revitalise and re-energise his squad to write the next chapter.
J.spurs
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Spurs and Pochettino need patience in more ways than one
As badly needed as the 5-0 win over Red Star Belgrade was, Pochettino and his players know there is still much more to do
Why Tottenham and Mauricio Pochettino need patience in more ways than one
As badly needed as the 5-0 win over Red Star Belgrade was, Pochettino and his players know there is still much more to do
- Miguel DelaneyChief Football Writer @MiguelDelaney
- 1 day ago
It's amazing what a victory can do for a team.
As badly needed as that 5-0 win over Red Star Belgrade was, though, Mauricio Pochettino and his players know there is still much more to do. They know it was just one win, against a beatable side. They know there’s still some way to go to turn this season, and maybe even the entire era of this team, right back around.
There’s already an immediate stumbling block: a trip to Anfield, and a match against this Liverpool.
The Premier League leaders’ supreme form may make it feel like it’s something of a free hit for Spurs, but it is a highly weighted fixture for reasons beyond Pochettino’s intense desire to compete at such a level.
There is similarly so much this specific Liverpool team, and this club, represent.
They offer many concrete examples of converting managerial regimes that had taken a turn for the worse.
Jurgen Klopp himself, however, isn’t one of those examples. It’s actually funny how things can work out.
Had those at Borussia Dortmund - including Klopp himself - decided to stick amid the struggles of the 2014-15 season, and not felt a change was so necessary, Liverpool might never have encountered this glorious new era.
It might have been the Bundesliga club enjoying another spell of glory. Because, as rightfully admired as Dortmund are for their intelligence in the continuation of an exciting approach first instilled by Klopp, they have still only won one trophy - the 2017 DFB Pokal - in the time since he left. They’ve often been sensational sure, but it’s felt a level down from what Klopp was capable of.
This isn’t to blame anyone, of course. The fair feeling at the time was that everyone was just exhausted. Which sounds familiar.
But it also points to something that has now been almost entirely exhausted in the modern game: no one gets the chance to build again.
It feels like you get one cycle… and that’s it.
The general truth in football, uttered by pretty much everyone in the game, is that “when it goes, it goes”. When a team reaches breaking point, that's it.
And that has been seen with virtually every manager and every team in football. It similarly conforms to Bela Gutmann’s rule of the third season being “fatal” and Sir Alex Ferguson’s firm belief that a three- or four-year cycle is the most you can have with any one group. That isn’t because of any mathematical clock in the sky, but because of the inevitable mental effect of working with the same people for so long.
But this is what is key. Why not reverse it, and give a proven manager time to rebuild? Why not give him the two years or so you would usually allow a new manager who comes in - and that Klopp pretty much got when he arrived at Anfield?
That, after all, has pretty much been the story of every turnaround. Clubs have taken the decision to hit pause, to be patient.
Some of the most instructive of those stories have come from Liverpool. Both Bill Shankly, in the early 1970s, and Bob Paisley, around 1981, endured serious drop-offs in the level of title-winning squads. One of those, in 1980-81, even involved a run to a European Cup final. Both were ultimately given the space to create a new team.
Precious few of those stories, however, come from the Premier League era.
This is indicated by the rather stark fact that, of all the managers in the competition’s history who took a job after the 1992 landmark - so excluding Sir Alex Ferguson, George Graham and Brian Clough - Pochettino is the eighth longest serving, at five years and five months.
That in itself is remarkable, and points to how rare it is for managers to get a second go.
This, it should be said, isn’t a plea for patience in the way we hear any time a new manager is struggling. The overwhelming majority won’t prove to be Ferguson.
But this isn’t about new managers. It’s about proven managers, and those like Pochettino who remain at the very forefront of the modern game.
It is even rarer, with them, that they don’t succeed when given that chance to build a second team. Pretty much all the greats have. It’s why they do what they do.
Many might argue here that Pochettino doesn’t deserve to be put in such a category since he hasn’t won anything, but that’s something else that is genuinely different in the modern game. The Argentine - as should barely need saying by now - has raised Spurs to standards of performance that should not be possible for a club of their resources. He has worked wonders. He has turned them into a Champions League contender, with Daniel Levy to be fair fully building on that with the construction of a truly Champions League stadium.
That was never going to be indefinitely sustainable, especially not with a team where many key players are the wrong side of their prime. Pochettino knew this as early as 2017, but the club’s economic restrictions have prevented him from acting upon it in the way Ferguson - or Shankly, or Paisley, or Sir Matt Busby - would have.
It is why the club should overlook what is a standard process in football, in the decline of one group of players together, and continue to invest in something special.
There is a proven way out of this, tough as it seems right now.
For his part, Levy is well aware of it. He knows Pochettino better than anyone, bar assistant Jesus Perez. More coldly, he also knows the price of getting rid of the Argentine, and getting in a new manager. There would be no guarantees there either. There may be a similar waiting period, especially if you make the wrong choice. Just look at what has happened with Unai Emery at Arsenal.
The feeling among some at Spurs is that results will start to right themselves once the new players - like Tanguy Ndombele, like Giovani Lo Celso - fully attune and get up to speed, which would also give more licence to drop the want-away players.
That could see things start to turn properly.
Until then, and especially this weekend, patience may be required. In more ways than one.
Finchbee
Well-Known Member
His time is up...he has to go
Don Diaz
Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
Sorry but that’s nonsense, Liverpool away is the hardest game of the season we lost 2-1 and hit the bar when it could have been 2-0. Ok we all have different team selections but the bloke has delivered our best football consistently for over 5 years.
J.spurs
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
This is silly. We will be lucky to hold on to him.
Yid
Moderator
Founding Member
What now?
The Cryptkeeper
The Aussie Yid
Not sure if serious?
Finchbee
Well-Known Member
He isnt at the moment and consistently playing players who shouldnt be playing
J.spurs
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Yeah, but that's just it. You can't make decisions based purely on the moment. Big picture is that the club has consistently overperformed under him. He's surely at the very least earned the chance to get it turned around.
Dorset
The Voice Of Reason
Founding Member
But who would be his replacement? I can't think of anyone who could hit the ground running and turn our current squad into top bananas. I agree that it's all a bit pony at the moment, but I know, cos I have seen with my own peepers some extremely good footy under Mr P and like individual players, teams go through pony-patches. I am hoping that this is just a blip. Get a decent win on Sunday then the next 6 PL games are all very winnable, but if we lo...... Nah, not happening.
skiathospurs
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
I saw a comment today quite pertinent to whats going on.End of the 60s Bill Nic dismantled the team and immediate success didnt come,yes fans would have grumbled in the pub,but there wasnt a flash mob tidal wave of #BillNicOut.We went on to win several other trophies,win in europe again,but in this age his time would probably have been up.
Having thought about your point,I think we are at a point where regeneration is needed in the team,its a natural progression for all clubs,some with luck,extreme funding can get through this period.Changing the manager when this natural fault in the road crops up has been mostly the way of the world.Not sure why?,is it media pressure now,social and journalistic?We have seen this model at previous successful clubs,man u,arse,inter, and so on,engage in a team rebuild and also bring in a new to the club management team,and what did that change?why is there the need to do both?Hard enough to bring in players which is always a gamble,we could all name 100 big money signings who have flopped and 100 under the radar never heard of them that succeeded.And my point is if we are about to change half a dozen of the side in the next 9 months,why when poch has proved his worth do we need to change him at the same time?In my eyes its several of the players that need moving on,ok we can argue all year if eriksen,jan,danny,toby,serge,etc should play at all,reality is if he dropped them and results had been the same because skipp,kwp,foyth,lo celso arent ready or up to it yet the argument would have been the complete opposite. to what people are alledging now.
And as for calls for mourinio to come because then we would win things,FUCKING PISS MYSELF LAUGHING at that idea.
Finchbee
Well-Known Member
Hes not going to tho with his continued persistence in playing players who dont deserve to play
Finchbee
Well-Known Member
Lets just hope hes on bayerns shortlist
The Cryptkeeper
The Aussie Yid
I am not one for the gaffer's sacking but I am starting to wonder about team selection and why certain players are/are not getting games:
1) Eriksen - completely gone as a footballer and it is more than him wanting out as far as I can tell. He was never quick but looks even slower than in previous years. His first touch is diabolical at present and he is ponderous on the ball which means he is being dispossessed frequently. An absolute liability and does not deserve a spot in the team.
2) Moura - should only be playing when we are set up to counter-attack. I like him and admire his endeavor but he is a "horses for courses" player who only thrives when he has space to run into. Against Everton today he was a non-entity.
3) Aurier - played well enough today but surely KWP is a better bet? Surely.
4) Parrott - I know he is a baby but at some point Pochettino will have to bite the bullet and throw him into it. The kid is a natural striker and with Kane out a straight swap was called for, not a cobbled together front three, two of whom are either lacking game time or out of form.
I know that Pochettino is big on showing faith to his established players but there are guys in this team right now who simply should not be there. GLC has to come in for Eriksen now. There really is nothing to be gained by persevering with the Dane. And we need to find a way to give Sissoko a break. The guy will run out of petrol soon given his workload and effort.
Finchbee
Well-Known Member
Eriksens performance...thats enough for me to say manager has to go...he played for 101 mins and ndombele was substituted
Attachments
Style And Glory
On My High Trojan Horse
Founding Member
Poch wasn't my first choice back in 2014.
But he quickly won me over.
He laid down the law: it was a meritocracy. You earned your playing time.
He was willing to cut out the rot even though some were established players.
You played because you bought into the system / philosophy.
He brought in the youngsters who were eager to play for the shirt.
His high tempo, high pressing, somewhat flamboyant & fluid style of play brought back a hint of the glory days.
It made you really proud of being a Spurs fan if you get what I mean. Opposition fans were complementary. Even envious.
It was also an organic build as opposed to investing billions in order to vacuum up all the top players.
But where has it all gone?
Where's that beautiful play? It has disappeared for most of 2019.
Something is terribly amiss. Poch had alluded to it for some time.
Talking about the new chapter. The refreshing of the team.
Why didn't it happen?
Did Levy let him down by not getting rid of players & thus not having the cash to bring others in?
Player's are now willing to run down their contracts &/or wanting to leave.
Why?
If they are unwilling to commit to the club, it is easy to wonder "why are they here?" Or "why are they even playing?".
This is what I don't understand. It's perplexing that these players are still being chosen. Even if their form hadn't dipped, they shouldn't be playing. But they are.
Why doesn't Poch banish them like in the past?
If that was / is his MO or philosophy, he's no longer adhering to it.
There's definitely more to it but to most of us on the outside looking in, it's not that evident. The poor form is but the reasoning behind it isn't.
It's this disconnect in Poch's decisions that leave me wondering if he's done here.
But he quickly won me over.
He laid down the law: it was a meritocracy. You earned your playing time.
He was willing to cut out the rot even though some were established players.
You played because you bought into the system / philosophy.
He brought in the youngsters who were eager to play for the shirt.
His high tempo, high pressing, somewhat flamboyant & fluid style of play brought back a hint of the glory days.
It made you really proud of being a Spurs fan if you get what I mean. Opposition fans were complementary. Even envious.
It was also an organic build as opposed to investing billions in order to vacuum up all the top players.
But where has it all gone?
Where's that beautiful play? It has disappeared for most of 2019.
Something is terribly amiss. Poch had alluded to it for some time.
Talking about the new chapter. The refreshing of the team.
Why didn't it happen?
Did Levy let him down by not getting rid of players & thus not having the cash to bring others in?
Player's are now willing to run down their contracts &/or wanting to leave.
Why?
If they are unwilling to commit to the club, it is easy to wonder "why are they here?" Or "why are they even playing?".
This is what I don't understand. It's perplexing that these players are still being chosen. Even if their form hadn't dipped, they shouldn't be playing. But they are.
Why doesn't Poch banish them like in the past?
If that was / is his MO or philosophy, he's no longer adhering to it.
There's definitely more to it but to most of us on the outside looking in, it's not that evident. The poor form is but the reasoning behind it isn't.
It's this disconnect in Poch's decisions that leave me wondering if he's done here.
Yid
Moderator
Founding Member
If you stick a player out to pasture he only has value to a side that want him. If you let him tain with the reserves you highlight his bad attitude, mental fragility and his willingness to vote with his feet. In essence his value drops and your prized asset becomes near worthless.
I can only assume 1 of 2 things:
A) He is protecting Levys/the clubs investments by keeping these players in the picture, in the shop window so that some value can be gained from their sale. He may not want to do this he may be being told to do this. Either way it could have credence.
B) He genuinely believes that these players, regardless of their current form offer more to the side than any of the replacement players we have in the squad. This is his prerogative and he is showing belief in those players who propelled us to great things over the last 5 years. It could also be a sideways swipe at Levy for not getting the players he wanted in the squad, when he wanted them. Continuing to shelve the meager offerings and afford them bit part roles and continuing with his established, trusted players could be his way of saying fuck you.
I dont know in all honesty but he cant perform miracles anymore and we shouldn't expect him to.
I think loosing our chief scout may have been a much bigger blow than any of us first thought. This fella started a pipeline of serious talent and that pipeline has dried up now.
Poch is a great manager, a great motivator, a reasonable tactician but he cant keep over performing with minimal resources. Yes weve spent a few quid in the summer, but it was 3 transfer windows too late. Thise players if brought last year would probably have bedded in by now and been performing much better and more consistent than they curently are.
Weve had a fucking great time of late and you have to remember weve consistently done it on a shoe string while the other clubs around us spent billions. Maybe we cant continue with that model for various reasons and have to find new methods.
Whatever it is I think Poch deserves some time to implement a new project, if he wants to. The new project may fail or fall short of the last great one, but he has earned his chance by delivering some amazing times to be a yid.
I think those calling for his head need to remember how shit it was before he came. Yes we had glimmers under Arry but it was very hit and miss and very very Spursy at times. Before that I try not think about, becuse frankly it was embarrassing in comparison to what we are now.
Motspur Hotspur
Well-Known Member
Yep agree with all of that. Your point about the sideways swipe is an interesting one, I wonder if Poch AND the squad are in on it together? Maybe the whole playing staff have had enough of Levy?! Who knows, we can all see something is very wrong at the moment and I doubt it's going to get better any time soon.
Style And Glory
On My High Trojan Horse
Founding Member
@Yid you make some interesting & plausible points.
But this has been going on for the better part of 10 months & it hasn't got any better.
Someone pointed out a stat.
In the 23 PL games before Feb 2019, we only didn't win 6 times.
In the 23 PL games since, we have only won 6 times.
That's a significant swing. Do you see things getting better under Poch?
It hurts me to say it, but I'm doubting it now.
But this has been going on for the better part of 10 months & it hasn't got any better.
Someone pointed out a stat.
In the 23 PL games before Feb 2019, we only didn't win 6 times.
In the 23 PL games since, we have only won 6 times.
That's a significant swing. Do you see things getting better under Poch?
It hurts me to say it, but I'm doubting it now.
Yid
Moderator
Founding Member
Not sure I agree with that and thinking on my comments, surely Poch could just come out and say it? Or take the Madrid/Utd job (if they're actually on the table) and say fuck you from afar with shit loads if cash.
Last edited:
Yid
Moderator
Founding Member
Poch isnt kicking the ball... what he did before with the players he could probably do again.
It's the players that have changed be it effort, age, confidence, motivation its them doing their job between the white lines that has changed.
You say 10 months.... coinsides nicely with us categorically refusing to enrich and strengthen the squad through 3 transfer windows.
And the reason given was that there was no value in the market. Maybe we couldn't find the value because of Paul Mitchels absence... remember Paul and Poch worked very well together at Southampton and Spurs and he left becuse Levy wouldnt alow him to do his job properly, in the way that him and Poch had done to great success for nearly a decade....
Imo you have to look at why it's gone to shit. Poch doesn't want to loose football matches does he. I think you can see he is in pain from what he is witnessing on the field. His ability hasnt just disappeared, if anything he has learned more in his time fighting without at the serious sharp point of all competitions.
The players are a diferent story. As I have said they've aged, they've become demotivated, some have moved on, some have said they want to move on, some are pissed about their wages.... there are tones of variables (and evidence of them) that they are the cause of the immediate problem.
Their reasons for all of the above I think is above Poch's head.
They see the lack of investment, they feel they are flogged every week without players to step in and do a job when they are fucked. They are asked every week to keep pushing themselves but when they ask for a few quid more or some players to help them out and share the burden.... there is no value, or the club wont pay the going rate for a Premier League player who is coverted by many teams across the globe who does see their value and wants to invest in them.
Seriously football in my eyes is no diferent from any business... personell are your biggest expenditure and if treated well you biggest asset.
Levy has fucked Poch and is imo hanging him out to dry as we have witnessed time and time again over the years.
All that cunt is worried about is the balance sheet at the expense of absolutely everything, including the best gaffer and squad we have had for deccades.
Don Diaz
Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
The truth is that none of us really know what is going on and who is to blame. What it looks like is the same as when John Terry's rabble gang wanted Mourinho out and they stopped playing.for him. I hope that isn't the case, because it's cheap.
Don Diaz
Zero tolerance of Numpty's
Founding Member
From the Telegraph online, probably an easy cheap article to write, but it's a proper journalist in a broadsheet paper.
Exclusive: Time running out for Mauricio Pochettino's Tottenham reign
Mauricio Pochettino is heading towards the point of no return at Tottenham Hotspur as fears grow that he will not be able to salvage their season.
The West Ham United game immediately after the international break is now rated as make or break for Tottenham’s campaign, and could even prove decisive for the manager himself.
The home draw with Sheffield United last Saturday left Spurs 14th in the Premier League going into the international break, just a point ahead of West Ham and without a win in five league games. Tottenham trail fourth-placed Manchester City by 11 points. West Ham have not won in the league since September, but Spurs have not won away from home in the league since January, when they beat Fulham. Another defeat on the road, at the home of their fierce rivals, would raise serious questions for the Spurs’ manager.
Pochettino is understood to have been at Tottenham’s Enfield training centre this week as he attempts to turn around the club’s season.
He has already warned there is no quick fix and last Saturday appeared to acknowledge that he may not get the time to make the changes he wants, saying: “We are in the process to build and we will see if we have the time to build what we want.”
West Ham and Arsenal have this week put out messages of support for their under-pressure managers, but there has been no such public backing for Pochettino.
That could be because Spurs are reluctant to be seen to be giving a dreaded vote of confidence, but the silence has only strengthened theories that a change is becoming inevitable.
It could also be a consequence of the fact that Pochettino has given the impression he could eventually walk away after first floating the idea ahead of last season’s Champions League final.
Pochettino signed a five-year contract worth up to £8.5 million a year last May, with sources claiming it would cost chairman Daniel Levy around £12.5 million to sack him.
Spurs have never confirmed the details of Pochettino’s contract, but Levy would prefer not to pay an expensive compensation bill to sack a manager who has done so much for the club.
There is also the issue over who would replace Pochettino midseason, even in a caretaker position, with no obvious interim at the club.
That would enhance the prospects of an out-of-work manager, such as Max Allegri or Jose Mourinho, being approached. But waiting to the end of the season would widen Levy’s options and give him a more realistic chance of appointing Bournemouth’s Eddie Howe, RB Leipzig’s Julian Nagelsmann, or even England manager Gareth Southgate.
Pochettino will have no shortage of suitors when he eventually leaves. He is still rated as one of the best in the business and has admirers at Manchester United and Real Madrid.
The 47-year-old has worked sporting miracles since being appointed in 2014, taking the club into the Champions League and reaching the final, as well as competing for the Premier League title.
Pochettino wanted to make big changes this summer, but Tottenham failed to sell the likes of Christian Eriksen, Toby Alderweireld and Danny Rose, while making only three new signings.
Eriksen has denied that he has been dropped as punishment for not signing a new contract, saying: “I feel 100 per cent that Tottenham has complete confidence in me. There is not that big a difference, except that I play a little less this year.
“‘I don’t feel there is a connection between my contract situation and the fact that I haven’t played as many matches.”
Exclusive: Time running out for Mauricio Pochettino's Tottenham reign
Mauricio Pochettino is heading towards the point of no return at Tottenham Hotspur as fears grow that he will not be able to salvage their season.
The West Ham United game immediately after the international break is now rated as make or break for Tottenham’s campaign, and could even prove decisive for the manager himself.
The home draw with Sheffield United last Saturday left Spurs 14th in the Premier League going into the international break, just a point ahead of West Ham and without a win in five league games. Tottenham trail fourth-placed Manchester City by 11 points. West Ham have not won in the league since September, but Spurs have not won away from home in the league since January, when they beat Fulham. Another defeat on the road, at the home of their fierce rivals, would raise serious questions for the Spurs’ manager.
Pochettino is understood to have been at Tottenham’s Enfield training centre this week as he attempts to turn around the club’s season.
He has already warned there is no quick fix and last Saturday appeared to acknowledge that he may not get the time to make the changes he wants, saying: “We are in the process to build and we will see if we have the time to build what we want.”
West Ham and Arsenal have this week put out messages of support for their under-pressure managers, but there has been no such public backing for Pochettino.
That could be because Spurs are reluctant to be seen to be giving a dreaded vote of confidence, but the silence has only strengthened theories that a change is becoming inevitable.
It could also be a consequence of the fact that Pochettino has given the impression he could eventually walk away after first floating the idea ahead of last season’s Champions League final.
Pochettino signed a five-year contract worth up to £8.5 million a year last May, with sources claiming it would cost chairman Daniel Levy around £12.5 million to sack him.
Spurs have never confirmed the details of Pochettino’s contract, but Levy would prefer not to pay an expensive compensation bill to sack a manager who has done so much for the club.
There is also the issue over who would replace Pochettino midseason, even in a caretaker position, with no obvious interim at the club.
That would enhance the prospects of an out-of-work manager, such as Max Allegri or Jose Mourinho, being approached. But waiting to the end of the season would widen Levy’s options and give him a more realistic chance of appointing Bournemouth’s Eddie Howe, RB Leipzig’s Julian Nagelsmann, or even England manager Gareth Southgate.
Pochettino will have no shortage of suitors when he eventually leaves. He is still rated as one of the best in the business and has admirers at Manchester United and Real Madrid.
The 47-year-old has worked sporting miracles since being appointed in 2014, taking the club into the Champions League and reaching the final, as well as competing for the Premier League title.
Pochettino wanted to make big changes this summer, but Tottenham failed to sell the likes of Christian Eriksen, Toby Alderweireld and Danny Rose, while making only three new signings.
Eriksen has denied that he has been dropped as punishment for not signing a new contract, saying: “I feel 100 per cent that Tottenham has complete confidence in me. There is not that big a difference, except that I play a little less this year.
“‘I don’t feel there is a connection between my contract situation and the fact that I haven’t played as many matches.”
Finchbee
Well-Known Member
Lots of tw@tter talk poch has walked